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Mordredd |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Dec 02, 2004 - 09:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 03, 2003
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Location: England
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I can walk a catcher (with dump off too) into multiple tackle zones and still catch the ball on a 3+ with re roll. Put another catcher with dump off (I have 4) next to him and it is near impossible for the offence to recover the ball. I have done it several times, and once did it twice in a single game. I'm sure it's very annoying.  |
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Da_Scum |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 02, 2004 - 09:46 AM
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Joined: Feb 14, 2003
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Mordredd wrote: I can walk a catcher (with dump off too) into multiple tackle zones and still catch the ball on a 3+ with re roll. Put another catcher with dump off (I have 4) next to him and it is near impossible for the offence to recover the ball. I have done it several times, and once did it twice in a single game. I'm sure it's very annoying.
I've tried it with both Skaven and Woodies and those teams love the new "Blitz" result. Far more than my Orc and Dwarves who now tend to not do much on the result unlike before. 
Glad to hear more people are actually testing these things now and finding out some of the new "possibilities" or "breaks" that led me to comment on the "NFL'ed" kick-off table in the first place.  |
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"Even the Goblin Coach eats the +1 to Injury roll..."
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Francesco |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 02, 2004 - 11:12 AM
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Joined: Nov 11, 2004
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I like the new KOT....
except of GTR it's more balanced now, I play a lot in League and now your team risk less being smashed by a damned PI or Blitz against the wrong team!
GTR gives less advantages in my opinion, you could foul for free but I had my players ejected at 6+ all the time, so i can stand with it. Now FF is useless. |
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juck101 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 05, 2004 - 11:11 AM
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Joined: Apr 04, 2004
England
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must say i have played most of this in a vault environment and its very good stuff.
Blitz was MENTAL. full stop you are a bad player if you dont score via rolling a ten in LRB. at least now far more chance of recovery. Not sure i agree with mordredd about elf loving new blitz more now they could do that before anyway - but i do get your point. At least its not a game win/lose result now.
Pitch invasion is cool too. Rare 5-6 players out stuff will again trash a game at any stage - so the stun is far more playable. Still seen it wreck most teams with just stuns. Any backfield bull centaur/wardancer that is stunned is going to expect a foul. That can still be pretty drastic.
+/- turn is great in tourni play. now an amazon side COULD use a odd down, and chanegs clock stalling a little. Not a bad idea that rarely has any effect. last tourni i lost 5 downs via two riots in the same game - was a d3 house rule. Losing half the game is no fun if you are playing at top level for fun is it?
Get ref - kinda fair both ways. The elf side vs khemri at least can foul back now! still rough but means is equal - again a result that could trash the game. Now orc/orc derby for example will be on the coach skill - not as drastic as one getting the ref.
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No disagree the new table is much better than before. But also agree with Ian that some of this change only works with vault as a holistic rule. |
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Mordredd |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 06, 2004 - 06:49 AM
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Joined: Mar 03, 2003
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juck101 wrote: Blitz was MENTAL. full stop you are a bad player if you dont score via rolling a ten in LRB. at least now far more chance of recovery. Not sure i agree with mordredd about elf loving new blitz more now they could do that before anyway - but i do get your point. At least its not a game win/lose result now.
This isn't exactly the point I was making. What I said was that my Elf team gets a lot more out of the new blitz result than my Orcs/Khemri/Undead.
In other words the new blitz has neutered the bashy teams' way of getting the ball without touching the agility teams' way.
Also I have to disagree about being a bad player if you get a blitz and don't score. IMO this is only true IF the offence set up in a way that is very vulnerable to a blitz. For example putting all their players on one flank or leaving big holes in their line in some other way.
Basically if a blitz is an automatic score then an offence should automatically score every time they don't get blitzed. The only real difference between receiving and (old) blitzing is where the ball lands. |
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juck101 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 06, 2004 - 10:56 AM
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Joined: Apr 04, 2004
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Location: England
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yep i know what you mean with elf blitz- still consider one orc blitzing and a few rushing to the ball an issue.
Cant argue as you a better player than me - but rare to see someone cope in LRB even if they have an even player spread when facing a blitz.
Anyhow having played 'new' blitz for around two years im much happier with it. |
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Bikerbob |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 16, 2004 - 01:31 PM
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Joined: Sep 01, 2004
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Well my impressions of it are more along the lines of Da Scum.
I have not played it a lot yet. But my reasons are more for the flavor of the game, and the idea of "BLOOD BOWL"
I liked that the kick off table COULD result in some nasty results, that was part of the game. THere are NFL football games out there, Avalon Hill made a great one, but if I wanted to play that I would be.
Having an odd or crazy kickoff result I think is better than lope sided teams. I also agree that for some of the weaker teams getting that one weird and wacky bonus from the Kickoff table was what you hoped for... and finally gave a point to the FF, which I have to agree I have been burned by many times giving away rr and loosing the ref etc... made me think about it.. why it was important to earn it... and sometimes, why it was worth paying for at team creation to allow my weaker team to progress instead of getting its ass kicked ALL the time... instead I had that hope.. that I might get an extra TD... caus out of a game and earn those soooo needed spp's.
James |
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Da_Scum |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 26, 2005 - 07:32 PM
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Well the recent goings on at the Canadian Open 2005 are starting to show the problems in the newer "NFL'ed" kick-off table. If the idea was to lower the influence of the Kick-Off table on the game it's grossly backfiring as was seen during the first day. Now sure pitch invasion isn't as deadly for a 1 in 36, but the new Get the Ref is proving a real game buster more than ever at a 1 in 18 chance. And it's been the teams with lower FF exploiting it so ruthlessly it causing a lot more "cleared pitches" than we've even seen before.
New Blitz is clearly favouring dodgy/fast teams over the slow lumbering ones, though I could see the point how the original one did favour the defence heavily. While the new one isn't as weighted, it is showing a bias towards some teams over others. The previous one didn't care really which team race got it.
Going to real interesting to see if Day Two continues the pattern.  |
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"Even the Goblin Coach eats the +1 to Injury roll..."
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 27, 2005 - 06:13 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
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Now this I agree with ... even in the Vault GTR is on a 2. But the rest of the BBRC didn't agree with moving the result to match the Vault.
Galak |
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Schmee |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 27, 2005 - 07:15 AM
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Joined: Sep 07, 2004
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The kick off table was until the recent modifications the only game mechanic that i thought unbalanced the game. Blitz, Pitch Invasion, Riot - all could easily win or lose a game on their own based on the throw of dice.
The new KOT has softened some of the more nasty rolls and made the game a little more skill-based rather than luck-based. The way it should be IMO.
In fact I personally would like to see more done to dumb down the KOT specifically with Blitz. I'm sure there was something in the vault about changing it to a single player being able to make one action. I'd like to see something like this or if the current version stays make it an 11 or 12 on the table, not a 10. A 10 on 2d6 is 1/12 chance whereas a 12 is 1/36 chance. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 27, 2005 - 07:44 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Have to agree, the new GTR is crap, and is something I'd definetly like to see changed out of the Rules review. I don't think making it on a 2 is enough though. The old GTR wasn't right either.
I'd like to see GTR become a FF roll as before, with the ref then becoming "only on a 6". We're using that in our home league, and the2 times it's been rolled, hasn't made a huge difference in the amount of fouling taking place (but that might be because the teams are still quite new, and no DP's yet). |
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Da_Scum |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 28, 2005 - 10:00 AM
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Darkson wrote: Have to agree, the new GTR is crap, and is something I'd definetly like to see changed out of the Rules review. I don't think making it on a 2 is enough though. The old GTR wasn't right either.
I'd like to see GTR become a FF roll as before, with the ref then becoming "only on a 6". We're using that in our home league, and the2 times it's been rolled, hasn't made a huge difference in the amount of fouling taking place (but that might be because the teams are still quite new, and no DP's yet).
You know that's not such a bad idea. Adjusting it to only calls "on a 6" period or having it the FF roll-off with the "6" in place and ignoring secret weapons could work. We saw at the Canadian Open 2005 that the new GTR opened the door to a lot more pitch clearings and sudden one-sided games than the previous one did. At least the previous version limited the damage to only one team "maybe" being able to exploit the situation. The new one just flings open the door as we saw happen quite a few times. It felt like 3rd edition all over again! (And the apothecary bills! Oh my...)
The new pitch invasion is so weakened now no one really cared about it. Ergo as per Galek's note maybe switching their positions in the KO table is in order to create more balance. (Heck the weather table now had more effect on games than the "NFL'ed" table does!  )
And as for the Blitz, sure it's toned down, however the Tournament did clearly show that it now favours certain races over others. What effect that would have on later "race weightings" in ratings is too soon to tell. However it's clear that all Elf, Skaven, Chaos Dwarves and Necromantic teams ADORE the new one, while teams like the Dwarves and Orcs see it now as a wasted Kick-off roll as they can't do much with it. (Unlike the above mentioned teams) Sure the previous one was deadly, but it was equal in how races could exploit it. (Besides this is bloodbowl...deadly is supposed to be there! ) At this time I'm curious if other tournaments are going to continue to show that pattern. More diversity of coachs and teams used are needed to reach a conclusion, so right now it's a theory made earlier that is starting to show disturbing results so far... 
Personally I still love the old KO table. (A "real man's" table!  ) However I can see what is being attempted here is to lower the effect it has on the game so that more of a coaches' and team's skills can come out in the game. That makes sense. "Penelty Time" is a heck of a lot better than Riot. It's those other three changes that seem to be causing the problems. Pitch Invasion is pretty neutered (much to the disappointment of the millions of Goblin fans out there. ) but maybe that was the goal. It's GTR that's seems to be now MORE influential rather than the reverse, and Blitz is now showing favourtism between races rather than being equal opportunity.
But once again, I'll need to see how it fairs at more major tournaments to see if this was just a fluke, or if it's a definate pattern.  |
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 28, 2005 - 03:37 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Da_Scum wrote: We saw at the Canadian Open 2005 that the new GTR opened the door to a lot more pitch clearings and sudden one-sided games than the previous one did.
As BB has evolved the most abusive combinations have been removed - most of which were injury causing. Making BB more bloody has been a common request. So being more bloody than the old version isn't necessarily a bad thing. Half the time the team being cleared from the pitch would have been so anyway. Still I've said before I don't particularly like it either - I just don't agree that its that much worse.
Da_Scum wrote: The new pitch invasion is so weakened now no one really cared about it. Ergo as per Galek's note maybe switching their positions in the KO table is in order to create more balance. (Heck the weather table now had more effect on games than the "NFL'ed" table does! )
I found the new PI more devasting for the drive than pretty much any other result on the table. When 3-4 players are stunned on one team and 1-2 on another it makes a huge difference. Anyway at least it doesn't decide the game (or even the league) any more.
Da_Scum wrote: Dwarves and Orcs see it now as a wasted Kick-off roll as they can't do much with it.
Because they aren't thinking about it at all. Blitz on slower teams is a marginally weaker version of perfect D (because you can't move the ones on the LOS) and they probably aren't set up for it. Personnally I consider Perfect D to be a great KO result.
Having the kick skill and kicking short is going to make a huge difference on a slow team blitz. You won't see too many teams with Kick at a tournament.
In PBBL there has been a slight change. Players can now take any action - except that players that start in an opponent's LOS. So you can use your blitz to push people back onto your other players for a block - or make a foul (or TTM or throw a bomb or whatever). This ought to give bashy teams a bit more of an edge since often they'll find the 3 LOS players unmarked and in a position to block and/or exploit a short kick. |
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