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Post subject:
 Posted: Jan 25, 2004 - 09:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 2319
Location: United States of America
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| I think that's a pretty good rule, but everyone would have to agree up front. After the choice for the 2004 team is finalized we can pose the question to those who want to participate. |
_________________
aka Rob (NAF #248)
President of the Lord Borak Fan Club
Founder of the GCLU
Commissioner, TO, Goblin King, NEBBN TSO
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longfang |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 26, 2004 - 11:29 AM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 189
Status: Offline
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Hmmm !  Glad I haven't bothered with any legacy teams if this goes on. I think some ground rules need to be laid down for the future. If I am to donate time and effort in producing a fig, I do not want to see it sold.
If you really didn't want this team why accept it, why not put it in for a redraw and let someone who would be more grateful own it.You suck
If my fig was in that team I would be demanding that it should be returned to me.
I'll be watching the 2004 team thread closely before committing to painting a fig. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 26, 2004 - 01:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 2319
Location: United States of America
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| A bit harsh if you ask me. If someone wins a prize in a contest, then it is theirs to do with as they wish unless they have made some prior agreement. |
_________________
aka Rob (NAF #248)
President of the Lord Borak Fan Club
Founder of the GCLU
Commissioner, TO, Goblin King, NEBBN TSO
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longfang |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 26, 2004 - 01:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 189
Status: Offline
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Melifaxis wrote: A bit harsh if you ask me. If someone wins a prize in a contest, then it is theirs to do with as they wish unless they have made some prior agreement. Would you not feel privaliged to own a part of what will become "BloodBowl History". How ungratefull to not want to keep it. If I had painted a fig for this I would feel very disappointed that the team was sold by someone who obviously cared little about winning it and I would be asking for it back. I would then randomly draw a name from the remaining contributors and give the fig to them. If I won a team like this, the only way I'd part with it would be to donate it to Galak's "BloodBowl Museum". I would not want to see it sold so freely without the consent of all the contributors. I feel that you've both done wrong and some prior agreement maybe is required. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 26, 2004 - 03:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 2319
Location: United States of America
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| Disagreeing is fine, you have a right to your own opinion. Telling people they suck because you have a different opinion really isn't called for, not that I'm very worried about it. |
_________________
aka Rob (NAF #248)
President of the Lord Borak Fan Club
Founder of the GCLU
Commissioner, TO, Goblin King, NEBBN TSO
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longfang |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 26, 2004 - 03:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 189
Status: Offline
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Melifaxis wrote: not that I'm very worried about it.
as you've shown by your actions. |
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Xtreme |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 26, 2004 - 09:06 PM
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Da Boss
Joined: Mar 12, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1096
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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| Mel didn't have to tell us he bought the team at all and we would have been none the wiser. I hope this doesn't put any sour mark on the legacy teams, I don't think it is something that you can really control once the team is in someones posesion it is theirs to do with what they like wither we agree with what is done or not. |
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Traveller |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 27, 2004 - 01:25 AM
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Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Germany
Posts: 166
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
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Quote: I hope this doesn't put any sour mark on the legacy teams
Well, i did in my case. First: i dont have much time left for Legacy minis this year... but, second: I will not give away more minis without a agreement with all painter, taking part on a legacy team, not selling or exchanging them for other minis. Sorry, but thats not the way i like to give away my minis for.
About Quote: Mel didn't have to tell us he bought the team at all and we would have been none the wiser.
Someone would have spot the team or ask for the team sometimes anyway ( i would... for a pict  ) And hidding the team is..., well, what use for a team in this case ?
If i remember right, SkinkFury never posted something about the whole story here, or ? Maybe he can explain his position... to be fair to him, we have to hear his reason, too. Or it was just the Retoric skill of Mel ?
BTW... I think, Tim´s suggestion isnt bad, but i like the redraw-idea of Longfang better.
Traveller |
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Argh... so many minis...so much paint.. so little time !
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Mordredd |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 27, 2004 - 04:13 AM
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Joined: Mar 03, 2003
England
Posts: 728
Location: England
Status: Offline
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I find some of the views expressed recently to be a little childish, particularly Longfang's. It is a little like demanding that a lottery winner return their winnings (so a new winner can be drawn from those who played) after the winner has announce their intention to give the money to friends/family/charity.
I did not take part in the 2003 team, but do plan to contribute in 2004. As far as I'm concerned it is the taking part that's fun. The eventual winner can dispose of the team in any fashion they like. They can even repaint it if they want.
Maybe the team should have a buy back clause like an Oscar? If the owner wants to sell the team they must first give the NAF the chance to buy it for $1. |
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Tim |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 27, 2004 - 05:34 AM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Germany
Posts: 544
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
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Mordredd wrote: The eventual winner can dispose of the team in any fashion they like. They can even repaint it if they want.
Legally ... yes. Ethically, NO.
Come on, we are a community and these are not governed by law, but by ethics. If a friend borrows a small amount of cash from you, would you charge him an interest? 
If the idea of the legacy teams comes down to a pure lottery - donate a figure to get a chance to win them all - i'll drop out. To me the idea is to create something special and unique and have one lucky contributor own it.
Maybe we should agree that the team is still owned by all the participating painters and we redraw the person who may physically have it yearly? |
_________________
NAF Regional Tournament Co-Ordinator - Germany
currently somewhere in NAF Ranking ...
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Deathwing |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 27, 2004 - 05:41 AM
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Former President
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
England
Posts: 1289
Location: England
Status: Offline
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Hmmm...
I suppose it is indeed skinkfury's right to do whatever he likes with the team, but it doesn't sit well with me either that something I put effort into went for profit in a private deal either. (If it were to be sold then maybe a Dutch auction between contributors or something would have been a more acceptable way?).
So I'm not going to condemn what happened, but I will think long and hard about contributing in future. It has soured it a little for me. Just my personal thoughts/reactions. |
_________________
 Ex-UK NTO,ex- Senior Tourney Co-Ordinator, ex-VP and ex-President....because Lycos says that new members don't know who I was..
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Old_Man_Monkey |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 27, 2004 - 05:44 AM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 1252
Location: Undisclosed
Status: Offline
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Hmm, interesting discussion... I see the points of both sides and clearly there are compelling reasons for having a set of guidelines/rules for the named legacy teams. I trust we can put the 2003 team behind us soon - what's done is done and more pointing of fingers will not change it.
Any group of coaches can get together and decide to paint a team with one painter winning the finished team in a drawing; witness the NBA's plans for a team this year. As a NAF officer, my interest is in maintaining the uniqueness, value, and interest in the NAF legacy teams.
If the NAF were to purchase the figures for distribution and then select the painters at random, would this be workable, and would it then give the NAF standing to impose some rules regarding the team? Everything from how many figures to deadlines to the reselling of the team could be addressed with the selected group before the legacy team painting would begin... I think when coaches are asked to submit a mini they've purchased there is potential disagreements that are difficult to resolve with no guidelines in place.
Another thought... I believe I speak for John and Anthony when I say that the NAF officers are committed to a NAF mission that supports all aspects of the game of Blood Bowl, not just tournament play and rankings (as some might think). Since the NAF is one of the few Blood Bowl organizations that generates funds, I would support the NAF funding of the TBB Legacy teams and perhaps other groups. So long as there were guidlines put in place by each group which addressed the questions raised in this thread and other places, I think this would be a great way for the NAF to use the membership's funds to help grow the game.
Just my thoughts...
-OMM |
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Tournament Organizer - The Three Kingdoms Challenge
Semi-retired NAF staff
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 27, 2004 - 06:07 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 2319
Location: United States of America
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Longfang wrote: Melifaxis wrote: not that I'm very worried about it.
as you've shown by your actions.
What I am not worried about is the "You suck" you so eloquently placed in your initial posting. In addition, by quoting a portion of a sentence out of context you can twist the meaning of my remarks to suit your needs. This second action concerns me more, but again not very much. |
_________________
aka Rob (NAF #248)
President of the Lord Borak Fan Club
Founder of the GCLU
Commissioner, TO, Goblin King, NEBBN TSO
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joker_BBBL |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 27, 2004 - 06:44 AM
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Joined: Feb 13, 2003
France
Posts: 44
Status: Offline
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whooooo
ok, skinkfury won the team, he can make what he want of it, but i would never see a free job i do on ebay, i prefer sell them by myself and get the money
i know its not the case for this one, but i totally agree with longfang, i paint it for free and fun of the project
ps sorry for my english |
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howlinggriffon |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 27, 2004 - 07:23 AM
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Joined: Nov 24, 2003
England
Posts: 196
Location: England
Status: Offline
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I've no problem with the sale of the 2003 team but, then again, I'm new to all this so it wouldn't affect me the way it would for Deathwing and the others that actually submitted a figure.
I think Old Man Monkey has the right idea - NAF should purchase the figues and select the painters at random. Maybe other NAF members could purchase and supply their own painted miniaturers of support staff for the team and get some kind of prize for the best effort - obviously something other than the miniatures (Free membership renewal for a year?)
Personally, I'd like to see the whole team being shown at NAF sponsored events and maybe a webpage dedicated to the team, each painter being able to add his or her comments on the model for inclusion with the picture of the minaiture. This way the contributing artists would be able to get public acclaim for the models they spend so much time and effort on.
Maybe I'm just the kind of guy that would prefer the Rembrandt to be shown in art galleries than in a private collection...
Cheers all...
Griffon Lord
www.howlinggriffon.co.uk |
_________________
Organiser of the Bunker Bowl
http://www.chelmsfordbunker.co.uk/?page_id=130
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