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Xtreme |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Feb 22, 2011 - 06:31 PM
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Da Boss
Joined: Mar 12, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1096
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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Most Coaches to attend a tournament
Zlurpee Bowl VI 68 Coaches
Most NAF Coaches to attend a tournament
Zlurpee Bowl VI 68 Coaches
Most NAF Games played at a tournament
Zlurpee Bowl VI 203 Games played
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daloonieshaman |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 23, 2011 - 05:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 28, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 883
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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and your point is ...  |
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generaljason |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 04:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 04, 2009
British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 439
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Status: Offline
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Grumbledook wrote: just butting my english opinion in... ;]
I agree every four years alternate between the world cup seems to be best
as the only coach (afaik) who has been to all four majors, there doesn't seem to be many coaches from american or canada going to tournaments in each others countries
if you have a world cup and 2 north american cups in the space of every 3 years I think you are going to limit attendance
I've been to the chaos cup twice and the spike when it was in toronto, there are also now it seems more tournaments for north americans to attend than before
the choice has been growing well and I'm pleased to see that though (I may be wrong) it appears to me there aren't that many coaches travelling a great deal to tournaments
obviously the distances are greater than we have in europe, though there is nearly a tournament every weekend in the UK now and unfortunately due to that and the fact the £ is worth a lot less now there seems to be a lot less travel around european countries than there was initiall with fewer tournaments to go to
I think the expression of don't run before you can walk could well apply here, I understand the enthusiasm though it isn't like there is a shortage of tournaments in your calender already that you could encourage people to go to
the two that see the most foreign coaches over here now are both the Blood Bowl and the Dungeonbowl (more UK coaches travel for that than any other in europe now)
feel free to ignore me but maybe some outside perspective could help, it is easier to do more if the demand is there than to fizzle out cause you spread yourselves too thin to begin with
Sorry guys for coming into this discussion late, but I did actually take the time to read the entire thread from top to bottom before posting....
I totally agree with Grum on this one. As much as I would love to see a North American Team Challenge, one run by North Americans, one run every 4 years in years that alternate with the World Cup, I really don't see it feasible without other large tournaments in North America suffering numbers wise.
Tom and I, and now Johnny P/Bryan and I have intentially started to host the Spike! Magazine in Vancouver and the Chaos Cup in Chicago within a week from each other to try to encourage cross travelling - not only for the Europeons but for the North Americans as well, in an effort to boost numbers for the 2 North American Majors. Creating yet another large tournament, albeit one that is only run every 4 years, imho is only going to exasperate this. It sounds like too much bread and not enough butter.
The discussion has obviously progressed over 7 pages, but the primary reason behind it was to "show Europe that North America can get enough coaches together to justify putting in a bid to host the actual NAF World Cup" one year. North America, like it or not, is always going to be cursed by geography. The sheer concentration of coaches in Europe as well as cheap flights makes it easy for cross travelling, North America not so much.
Our BB travelling is usually confined to road trips - whether the event is large or not. I drove with 3 others to Calgary in 2007 for the Spike!; my brother and another member took a flight down to L.A. for WCQ 2010, and a dozen+ of us are driving to Seattle this weekend for the Rat City Rumble. But for the most part there is a sphere of travelling that North American tourneys will get that European tourneys are not limited to imho, and as such North America will never see those numbers every four years.
But even if they did do it once, again other tournaments in North America would suffer as a result numbers wise due to the fact that cross travelling for a BB tournament is a much bigger deal here than it is in Europe.
The only valid reason for setting up a NA Team Challenge imho would be to set up a Team Challenge that North Americans can play in due to the fact that the NAFWC is too far/too expensive/blah blah blah. It's meant to compensate for the fact that North Americans don't travel to Europe for BB often to play in the WC. I'm totally against that by the way because we already have a WC for Blood Bowl now, and I totally agree that it should stay in Europe for all the reasons above.
That said, I agree with Ian that the only viable location in North America for WC would be Vegas. It's the only city that I believe might get some serious numbers from Europe and elsewhere - because without them you will never see numbers like you will in Nottingham, Amsterdam, Paris or anywhere in Europe for WC.
Just my 2 cents. Sorry for the length but I was responding to the entire thread. For those who have invested a lot of thought and text into this idea my sincere apologies for what sounds like a overly pessimistic post but I'm just writing what I think is realistic.
Gj. |
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Daggers |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 25, 2011 - 08:31 AM
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Joined: Dec 07, 2006
Canada
Posts: 1618
Location: Canada
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Unfortunately, I have to agree somewhat with generaljason. As much as this would be an awesome idea, the main hinderance would be location and travelling. I mean, its almost the same cost for me to fly to Vancouver as it is to fly to Amsterdam. And as much as I like a North American tournament that is comperable to hte WC, the reality is that it will deter from other tournaments. I think if we concentrated on attending other tournaments instead of making a new one, that would help out the NA BB community more than making a new tournament.
I would love to go to the Chaos Cup, Spike Zlurpee, GenCon or any other large attendance tournament, but finances dictate otherwise. If/when I do have the money, I would be just as happy making it to one of them as much as going to a North American Championship tournament.
Either way, if this does happen, I will try and supprt it as best as I can. But I tihnk the same issues will arise as with people travelling to all tournaments. |
_________________
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AnthonyTBBF |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 25, 2011 - 11:29 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Toronto, ON
Posts: 1313
Location: Toronto, ON
Status: Offline
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The mistake here is trying to compare this event to a European one. If 80 people is large for NA, then shoot for that. I don't think we should cry defeat just because it wouldn't be as big as a European tournament.
For most people over here, 80 people would be awesome, wouldn't it? |
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www.xtbbf.org
Orion Cup - June 8, 2013
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Deathwing |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 25, 2011 - 12:17 PM
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Former President
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
England
Posts: 1289
Location: England
Status: Offline
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Butting in from England..
A 4 year cycle staggered between WC years would probably attract more Europeans and should minimise the impact on the other larger NA tournies.
So shooting for 2013 is my suggestion, two years after the WC and two years before the next one would be the optimum time to draw the euros over. Plenty of time to sort the details and still get it announced a year in advance during 2012. That timeframe wouldn't surprise me to see upwards of 50 euro coaches over. (Well as long as you don't decide on holding it in Bon Temps or somewhere.... )
Just sharing thoughts... |
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 Ex-UK NTO,ex- Senior Tourney Co-Ordinator, ex-VP and ex-President....because Lycos says that new members don't know who I was..
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generaljason |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 25, 2011 - 01:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 04, 2009
British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 439
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Status: Offline
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AnthonyTBBF wrote: The mistake here is trying to compare this event to a European one. If 80 people is large for NA, then shoot for that. I don't think we should cry defeat just because it wouldn't be as big as a European tournament.
For most people over here, 80 people would be awesome, wouldn't it?
That's not what I'm saying - I think 80 coaches at any North American tournament would be awesome so we are totally on the same page there. My issue is that having a Team Challenge in North America every 4 years would only take away potential teams going to World Cup instead.
World Cup 2011 in Amsterdam has no North American teams, and it's not because we don't have individual players from Canada and the U.S. that wouldn't be able to go, but that it is extremely hard to get 6 coaches from a North American club together and able to register a team. Myself, my brother, and 2 other guys could have gone from our club - but I honestly couldn't tell you who the other 2 guys would have been.
As Dwarfrunner pointed out, going to Toronto to Vancouver is the same as going from Toronto to Amsterdam. If North America was able to put together a Team event that could get 6 player-teams from clubs scattered around the New World to attend once every 4 years then why not just attend World Cup then?
I agree with James that overall a Team Challenge wouldn't hurt the Major Tournaments in North America (Gencon, Zlurpee, Chaos Cup, Spike!) that much given it's only every 4 years, but I do believe that it would further diminish any chance that 6-man-teams will travel to Europe to participate in the NAF WC.
Again - North America doesn't have one team attending WC this year and I'd like to see that remedied for WC 2015. Imho a North American Team Challenge as much as it would be fun would only make this worse, and I want to see more NA Teams in the WC in the years to come. No teams attending from either Canada or the U.S. is a little embarrassing imho. I'd like to see more effort to get our teams in Europe instead. |
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Alkaline13 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 25, 2011 - 03:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 02, 2005
Aurora, IL, USA
Posts: 112
Location: Aurora, IL, USA
Status: Offline
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generaljason wrote: AnthonyTBBF wrote: The mistake here is trying to compare this event to a European one. If 80 people is large for NA, then shoot for that. I don't think we should cry defeat just because it wouldn't be as big as a European tournament.
For most people over here, 80 people would be awesome, wouldn't it?
That's not what I'm saying - I think 80 coaches at any North American tournament would be awesome so we are totally on the same page there. My issue is that having a Team Challenge in North America every 4 years would only take away potential teams going to World Cup instead.
World Cup 2011 in Amsterdam has no North American teams, and it's not because we don't have individual players from Canada and the U.S. that wouldn't be able to go, but that it is extremely hard to get 6 coaches from a North American club together and able to register a team. Myself, my brother, and 2 other guys could have gone from our club - but I honestly couldn't tell you who the other 2 guys would have been.
As Dwarfrunner pointed out, going to Toronto to Vancouver is the same as going from Toronto to Amsterdam. If North America was able to put together a Team event that could get 6 player-teams from clubs scattered around the New World to attend once every 4 years then why not just attend World Cup then?
I agree with James that overall a Team Challenge wouldn't hurt the Major Tournaments in North America (Gencon, Zlurpee, Chaos Cup, Spike!) that much given it's only every 4 years, but I do believe that it would further diminish any chance that 6-man-teams will travel to Europe to participate in the NAF WC.
Again - North America doesn't have one team attending WC this year and I'd like to see that remedied for WC 2015. Imho a North American Team Challenge as much as it would be fun would only make this worse, and I want to see more NA Teams in the WC in the years to come. No teams attending from either Canada or the U.S. is a little embarrassing imho. I'd like to see more effort to get our teams in Europe instead.
That is fantastic that you and 3 of your friends could actually make it to Europe and compete in this WC.. in fact, why not look for 2 more Americans to complete your team?
I think the fact of the matter is, it would be hard for many gaming groups in the this country to find 6 people who can AFFORD to make a 1200$ trip to Europe for WC. It has nothing to do with lack of interest.. Hosting a NA Championship would allow teams from North America to compete in a large scale tournament without having to pay AS MUCH (it wouldn't be cheap to travel all over the country) to play.
I can honestly say that is 100% of the reason why I won't be attending WC2011.. funding and I'm sure there are loads of American and Canadian players out there thinking the same thing..
And worst case.. we attempt to run it and it doesn't work |
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AnthonyTBBF |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 25, 2011 - 06:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Toronto, ON
Posts: 1313
Location: Toronto, ON
Status: Offline
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I guess our thing doesn't have to be a team event. It could be something else. Just having a big NAF event would be great.
BTW I am pretty sure there is a Canadian team going to the WC, so that's one for this year |
_________________
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www.xtbbf.org
Orion Cup - June 8, 2013
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jrock56 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 25, 2011 - 07:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Canada
Posts: 892
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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generaljason wrote:
World Cup 2011 in Amsterdam has no North American teams, and it's not because we don't have individual players from Canada and the U.S. that wouldn't be able to go, but that it is extremely hard to get 6 coaches from a North American club together and able to register a team. Myself, my brother, and 2 other guys could have gone from our club - but I honestly couldn't tell you who the other 2 guys would have been.
As Dwarfrunner pointed out, going to Toronto to Vancouver is the same as going from Toronto to Amsterdam. If North America was able to put together a Team event that could get 6 player-teams from clubs scattered around the New World to attend once every 4 years then why not just attend World Cup then?
I agree with James that overall a Team Challenge wouldn't hurt the Major Tournaments in North America (Gencon, Zlurpee, Chaos Cup, Spike!) that much given it's only every 4 years, but I do believe that it would further diminish any chance that 6-man-teams will travel to Europe to participate in the NAF WC.
Again - North America doesn't have one team attending WC this year and I'd like to see that remedied for WC 2015. Imho a North American Team Challenge as much as it would be fun would only make this worse, and I want to see more NA Teams in the WC in the years to come. No teams attending from either Canada or the U.S. is a little embarrassing imho. I'd like to see more effort to get our teams in Europe instead.
Hey GJ, just to let you know there is one Canadian team confirmed and possibly a second in the works as we have 2 spots registered on the WC list #38/39 I believe. There are also some players from the US attending as well that I know of (I think there is one team and a few individuals) So there will be a North American presence at the WC this year. That being said, I do agree with much of what you said above. It is hard to estimate whether a NA tourney would impact numbers going to the WC in Europe though as only having one of the events every 2 years is enough of a distance between them that it would be possible to plan on attending both. Anyhow just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents  |
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daloonieshaman |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 26, 2011 - 05:47 AM
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Joined: Feb 28, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 883
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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This concept in no way infringes on the WC or pointed Events
The people that are going to play are going to play regardless of the other stuff. It was very unfortunate that the recession has been so prolonged and it has hurt long travels to Europe.
We all weigh which event(s) we will attend for a given year and allocate the appropriate funds. Yes we would like to attend them all but it breaks down to simple money.
There is NO reason whatsoever to have 6 man teams. It is beyond comprehension. 3 or 4
Vegas is the most alluring location.
We are going through the venues for the West Coast Quake 2012. I believe we have selected a location and date more than a year out. We have options for more people (just gotta pay for the space). Group discount on the hotel. It is not on the strip and not 5 star. About a 7 minute stroll from the strip. Rooms are large and VERY affordable. (I think you can fit 6 or so in a room (and sleep in beds or pull out couch, we are not even talking floor)
Here is Pasadena I can get us convention space (sitting & tables) for 1000 people or more (Up to 80,000 square feet in one room). (80,000 sf is about 2000 people with tables and chairs and room to spare)
It is all simple logistics
You can contract space for more or less space if you use deposits and secure by a certain date.
Say for example you want to do Vegas 2013
Start a sign up sheet to get loose numbers (while you are shopping around for places that holds different amounts)
Open non-refundable registration 6 or so months out but give kickbacks
Then either lower the rewards (If you register by xx date you get a limited edition y)
The have a larger sum at the door
Yes it is for NA, Great if Euro wants to attend. Several from Europe will attend but not in any great number so it all washes out. Few of us will be able to attend WC at any of the events over the next 20 years. I might can afford 1 and take advantage and plan a 3-4 week family trip. The NA I can go to every time. (Plus we have the attraction of Vegas for the cross ponders)(not to mention the 100s of other vacation hotspots in NA) |
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Lizardcore |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 26, 2011 - 12:19 PM
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Joined: Apr 07, 2004
Posts: 513
Status: Offline
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I think a lot of points in daloonieshaman's post are good:
- 2013
- 4 coach per teams
I dont know if there is a tournament in vegas, but an option is to replace it by the NAC. This is what organizers did for the last Eurobowl in France (even if eurobowl is not like other tourneys): that provided the tourney that the locals are used to have at this period, guarantying a minimal attendance, plus teams coming from all over europe.
And as said previously, if some people are motivated enough to organize the first one, just do it and let see what happens !
PS: think about advertising the tournament properly, very few coaches are coming on this website ! |
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daloonieshaman |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 26, 2011 - 04:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 28, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 883
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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Simple suggestions:
Each team gets extra pts for having all different races
Each team with (1 or more) Stunty races gets extra pts for playing against a team that does not have Stunty race
Each team gets extra modeling (painting/conversions) points for all teams being themed the same (say they all look like nascarr pit crew of but of difference pit team colors)
Each team gets extra painting points for Painting all 4 team up the same(ish) (they look coherently like part of the larger Team)
PLEASE PLEASE request that players are required to put numbers on the front and rear of the model base so us old forgetful bastards with failing eyes can keep track of players. |
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daloonieshaman |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 26, 2011 - 04:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 28, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 883
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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Player Advertising Venues for NAC:
(I like NAC better than NATC more open to players)
Our Own Leagues
Our Own Events
Our Forums
Local (Weirdo ) Game conventions  (like GenCon)
Talk Blood Bowl
NAF
Pod Cast:
Zlurpee
Three Die Block
Others
Heads of Leagues and events in other parts of the world
Handbills (fliers)(volunteer your time a few bucks to print some out)
Business:
Impact
Roll Jordan (people)
Shadowfordge
Every Blood Bowl related Web Site you can think of
We may be able to draw some vendors (depending on who is in town and if someone has something new out to pimp) for demos and free swag |
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Lizardcore |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 27, 2011 - 07:39 AM
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Joined: Apr 07, 2004
Posts: 513
Status: Offline
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+ Fumbbl wbsite
+ bloodbowl L E forum |
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