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Spazzfist |
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Post subject: Hey Galak, what's up....
 Posted: Sep 28, 2005 - 06:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
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Posts: 3954
Location: Canada
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...with that new ogre team?
I saw that you posted a link for the new team in another thread, and I have to say that I am really not liking what I am seeing. The ogres have never been a very viable team to begin with, and now you are taking away the gobbos and making the ogres more expensive even though they are getting worse!
Care to explain what the rationale is behind that? |
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#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 - 06:09 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
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Location: Kent, UK
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| This is an old conversation that would be better off on either TBB or the GW site. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 - 11:24 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
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Doubleskulls wrote: This is an old conversation that would be better off on either TBB or the GW site.
Why? |
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#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 - 12:00 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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I'll give you the quick answer, but there are long threads discussing this.
1) After talking more with JJ ... the Ogre team is really meant to be able to win no more than Halflings.
2) The price raise on Ogres is a consistent change throughout the new rules ... ALL Big Guys had their price increased and it has been very well received.
3) The feedback from all the playtesters is that 0-12 Ogres was just too much Strength when the team developed. So like the Chaos Dwarf team and the Vampire team which has 0-6 of its name sake the Ogres were trimmed back to 0-6.
4) Snotlings instead of Goblins. Two reasons for this a) its makes the team not another Goblin team but with more Big Guys. b) you now have real options when designing a new team ... even in the LRB 4.0, the Ogre team has very very limited options for what a starting team can look like.
As with all changes of this nature ... some folks have loved it ... and some folks (like you) haven't. So far the yeahs have outnumbered the nahs and there were actually very real playtesting reasons for the changes.
And don't knock Titchy until you've seen it in action. 2+ dodge rolls anywhere means you really do have mobility even if the players are ST 1. Diving Tackle as a 1st skill often let's you have pretty good defense, and since Stunties can now get Dauntless ... even a Snotling can take out a ST 3 ball carrier in a cage 43.2% of the time now with a re-roll, Dauntless, and an Ogre cancelling out the two assists.
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Khaine |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 - 12:30 PM
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I have to agree with spazz on this one. I HATE seeing more rules added to the game. And titchy just seems uhmm strange. Probably just me though. I'd rather see something like 0-8 ogres and 0-12 snotlings. I was in the process of aquirng models for an ogre team, but with the review coming up there is no way I'd play a team of snotlings. Str 1 is just goofy. And having to get a specific skill to make something viable just doesn't seem like great balancing.  I can't say I have any rl experience with an ogre team, but I'd imagine to become "developed" it would take 20+ games just to get the other ogres hired, and it has to be a hard road. BTW why would the Big Guy Prices go up? They lost general skill access, and with their negatraits they seem almost perfectly priced to me. I always thought big guys added flair to the game. Plus they make outstanding models on the field. And a great oppurtunity to paint something I can actually see <currently working on female shadowforge elves and wondering how much a 100x visor is goign to run me so I can paint them to game standard>. |
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Touch my Mini's and Pull Back A Stump!!!!!
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Paul |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 - 01:26 PM
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Joined: Feb 18, 2005
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Quote: I can't say I have any rl experience with an ogre team, but I'd imagine to become "developed" it would take 20+ games just to get the other ogres hired
I'm plaing an Ogre team now in the TBBF (using the existing LRB rules). After 12 games, I'm 5-6-1, I've had 1 Ogre Die (who had Guard/Break Tackle)
They hit really hard, but the goblins mean they take their fair share of casualties. I will admit, that my team is good because I've gotten lucky with the doubles rolls (3 Ogres have block, 1 Goblin has Sure Hands) and another Ogre has picked up a Strength upgrade along the way.
They're fun to play, I use them for fun and usually, my defense consists of smashing the opposing players, and then throwing a goblin at the guy who gets by with the ball hoping he a) scatters into his square (because for some reason you're not allowed to throw players at other players) or b) he manages to land and gets lucky on a 2 Die opponents choice Blitz.
Heres a link to their roster if you want to see what they're like http://www.bloodbowl.net/teams/Paul/Ogreheim+All-Stars.html
I will admit that having snotlings in the future is alittle dissapointing to face, but at the same time, I play them with fun, so what the hell. As long as I can throw snotlings at players (*hint*) I won't mind. And hell, with stunty players getting access to Dauntless now, I can't wait to see my opponents face when a Snotling kills his best player instead of a goblin.
I don't know how final the vault rules are, but what about a mix of Goblin/Snotling players?? Maybe allow them 2 or 4 Goblins on the roster as well. I know that now, you're pretty much pooched in what you start with. 5 Ogres 6 Goblins, 1 RR & 9 FF is the best, you can go with 6 Ogres, 5 Goblins 2 RR & 1 or 2 FF, but you'll never get the gate you need to win the cash to buy more Ogres. Since I started my team, I've bought 2 RR (140k each) and 2 Ogres (saving to replace Dullius Wappers who was killed by some underhanded Dark Elfs)
Ogres are fun, 6 of them is enough to have character. Fielding 11 of them (as you can now) would be a very scary sight to see, but you'll never be able to handle the ball, and bone-head will kill you each turn. Maybe on Defense I might send out 11 Ogres if I get there with that team (I doubt it) but I wouldn't recomend more than 7 or 8 on the field anyways, so only having 6 wouldn't be that bad. |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 - 01:34 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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Paul wrote: Fielding 11 of them (as you can now) would be a very scary sight to see, but you'll never be able to handle the ball An 11 man Ogre team handles the ball the same way Khemri do. You use your doubles to get Sure Hands instead of Block.
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 - 02:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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| Beat me to it. |
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Snew
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carmachu |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 - 02:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 27, 2005
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Hey, I'm not sure i like how thro teammate is being handled. Only as far as the Strength of the trower is not sounding good.
But I trust you guys. |
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Paul |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 - 02:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 18, 2005
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Quote: An 11 man Ogre team handles the ball the same way Khemri do. You use your doubles to get Sure Hands instead of Block.
Bah, not having block would inhibit the ogres crushing ability, which is really the reason why I like playing them.
Yea, Sure hands on the Ogres would work, I'd still rather have a goblin with the ball whos faster and has stunty. |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 - 04:05 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
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Paul wrote: I play them with fun, so what the hell. As long as I can throw snotlings at players (*hint*) I won't mind. And hell, with stunty players getting access to Dauntless now, I can't wait to see my opponents face when a Snotling kills his best player instead of a goblin. I'll keep this in mind.
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 - 04:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
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Is there any hope that this will not actually happen?
If it does happen, will the "titchy" players be able to be thrown farther due to their smaller size?
<discontented sigh> |
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#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 28, 2005 - 08:54 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
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Spazzfist wrote: Is there any hope that this will not actually happen? Not really. We've been working on the new rules since March 1st of 2004. Its in the final stages ... sorry that you don't like what you see.
If you have specific concerns ... you can always voice them on the official forum for this discussion.
http://www.specialist-games.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=4
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Narkotic |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 29, 2005 - 02:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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| I like snotlings/titchy. We had an Ogre team with the current LRB rules in our league. after 20 matches they became so strong that they won every match plus partly destroying the opponent. |
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stick_with_poo_on_the_end |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 29, 2005 - 04:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 15, 2005
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I too like snotlings.
1. Gobos have their own team and can gatecrash an Orc team
2. Snotling minis are cool
3. Titchy is a great skill and can really annoy opponents
4. This looks that they will be a blast to play! And the size difference in the figures, really adds to little and large comedy value.
5. As already mentioned, these aren???t supposed to be a competitive team but a fun team like Halflings, if you want to win leaugues and tournies, then play Skaven or Undead
6. If anyone is listening, a snotling star player would be cool.
Anyways that???s just my 2 cents worth! |
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