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absent |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 07:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 119
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It does matter how dense a population of BB players you have in a region to see how many people to expect for a tournament in that region though, I disagree with you on that. And the upper midwest doesn't really have that many BBers. It's a moot point anyway, I do agree that everything possible should be done to increase the number of people participating at the tournament, short of moving the tournament to a different region. I think we're just arguing for fun here  But I think how this tournament is being judged here is all wrong, It wasn't some disaster, it was FUN, and since it was fun we should work on expanding it for next time. |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 07:32 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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absent wrote: I say yes to more advertisment, yes to 2 day tournaments, yes to whatever will make the tournaments larger, but NO to this was some kinda failure. Just so you know absent ... I 100% agree with what you said here. A good tournament that should be have work done to make it bigger ... we are saying the same thing.
Galak |
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absent |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 07:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 08, 2004
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| I wasn't trying to be arguementative, just bored at work, and thought I'd say my bit on how the tournament is being judged. I know i post some stuff that sounds strongly whatever sometimes, not intentional. |
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Jonny_P |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 10:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Posts: 899
Location: United States of America
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Quote: 5) Joe is working on starting a Battle Bunker Blood Bowl league ... if that takes hold that will be an excellent source for players and word of mouth to build on for that tournament.
I am right near the bunker and Dean and I were gathering up names for that bunker league next year. Once up, I'll send the link over becuase if the Chaos Cup remains there, a good core of players from a league already existing there will be a big boost, both in number of players and word of mouth.
Also, this was my first NAF event, but 22 coaches still seems very low for what this tournament is SUPPOSED to be. Like I posted once before, late 2003 GW ran a BB tournament that the final prize was 2 Super Bowl tickets and airfare for the 2005 Super Bowl!!! We had about 8 people show up. They cancelled that prize due to lack of interest and gave each tournament qualifying coach a very nice parting gift. No advertising though. Best prize ever, and no one knew about it.
I play other GW specialist games and it has been my experience that they give you free rulebook downloads to get you into playing, but they don't really push the games. They like to see gaming groups get together and push these games. That's great and all for a little Necromunda campaign, but since they know BB has such a huge (cult) following, they need to advertise this game. Last year's Chaos Cup had a one page ad in a special Chicago Gamesday insert that came with WD subscriptions. This year had nothing on Chicago Gamesday, and just a small blurb about the Chaos Cup. |
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Old_Man_Monkey |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2004 - 07:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2003
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Posts: 1252
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Well, I had quite a long response last night that was somehow eaten by the site  but in a nutshell:
a) no one has suggested that the environment played in this year was 'some kinda failure', rather that the effort put forth by GW-US was not worthy of the national BB tournament for the US and a major championship;
b) as such, it is less a matter of WHERE than ORGANIZATION and SUPPORT - when so many are willing to help improve the tournament. The question is NOT about density - never has been - Chicago was the site because the Midwest Sale Group for GW-US wanted to serve as the host. If density does become the issue, then how about the suggestion that the Chaos Cup move to the Glen Burnie, MD Battle Bunker - the HQ for GW-US - since the density of people/coaches provides a stronger base?
c) the move to GenCon is to ease any transition - Tom already runs a large, well-organized tournament and with some small tweaks, this tournament could serve as the Chaos Cup quite easily. But again, it's less about WHERE and more about ORGANIZATION and SUPPORT;
d) the Chaos Cup is not supposed to be a regional tournament - it should be THE tournament of the year for the country - I understand if some are not willing or able to travel - I do know of DOUBLE the numbers of this year's attendees that did not come to the tourney (both near and far) because it was a one day tournament. '12 states from Illinois' should not be part of the equation;
e) two more points for Tom:
1. it appeared to have no support because it had no support - because your good efforts, along with Gregg's and Andy's and others, kept it from being a disaster does not change this;
2. a change in NAF k value cannot be the issue right now - I am pretty sure the membership would support changes when the level of commitment from GW includes the changes we've talked about. It's putting the cart before the horse - as an officer representing an international membership and as a coach/TO who has attended tournies on both sides, it is premature to make any changes now until we see what GW-US is going to do to improve the tournament. I am working and hoping they allow help from outside their doors to help make this tournament what it should be - one of the preimminent Blood Bowl tournaments in the world and a great time for everyone involved.
-OMM |
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Tournament Organizer - The Three Kingdoms Challenge
Semi-retired NAF staff
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Old_Man_Monkey |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2004 - 08:18 AM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2003
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absent wrote: And the upper midwest doesn't really have that many BBers. It's a moot point anyway, I do agree that everything possible should be done to increase the number of people participating at the tournament, short of moving the tournament to a different region. I think we're just arguing for fun here But I think how this tournament is being judged here is all wrong, It wasn't some disaster, it was FUN, and since it was fun we should work on expanding it for next time.
Sorry - usually I just ignore things like this but this project is just too important to stand on the sidelines:
1. If the upper midwest 'doesn't really have that many BBers', then 'expanding it' (and here I take it you mean to move to more games and thus days...) might point out that the tournament should be more central to a majority of coaches who attend;
2. it surely is evident that many don't want the tournament to move because it's convenient to them. Sort of small townish, but OK, what I expect then in turn is for those that want the tourney to remain where it is to appreciate the concerns of those that did not come - for any reason: expense, timeline, organization, et al - and help make sure the needed changes for next year go through. |
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Tournament Organizer - The Three Kingdoms Challenge
Semi-retired NAF staff
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AnthonyTBBF |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2004 - 08:52 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Toronto, ON
Posts: 1313
Location: Toronto, ON
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GalakStarscraper wrote:
Solutions as I see them
1) We have to convince Joe to try a 2 day tournament again. I consider most of the 21 folks that didn't show up to be voting for 2 days. If a 2 day event doesn't generate interest next year ... I'd back down ... but I think its important to pull in the out of towners.
2) GW or NAF or I reserve the domain ChaosCup.com and use it to post results, rules, and information on the tournament. I'll more than happy post a link straight to it off my main page of bloodbowl.net which will help inform everyone. In addition, this site could list nearby inexpensive hotels to help folks see that its not that expensive to stay overnight.
3) GW needs to make sure that Fanatic Mag (even if its online) has a full page/half page ad to announce the event. It needs an ad in White Dwarf to run, and its needs to make sure there is an online presense to advertise the tournament.
4) If the NAF has all 4 (5 if you add on in OZ) majors be the same for K value, this will help give the world legit reasons to take the effort to attend the majors. There are several NAF members that are willing get the Chaos Cup a breathing functional tournament. But the NAF lending it some street cred would sure as heck help. Right now if I've got to choose between GenCon and the Chaos Cup ... its a slam dunk if I'm buying a plane ticket because the GenCon tournament will be more games, more folks, and count more for my NAF ranking. I'm willing to work with Joe on more games, but I need the NAF to equal up the majors to give the Cup some more reasons for folks to come. If we can get folks through the doors, we can make it a good tournament.
5) Joe is working on starting a Battle Bunker Blood Bowl league ... if that takes hold that will be an excellent source for players and word of mouth to build on for that tournament.
Galak
My responses:
1) Tell Joe to contact the Cnadian GW people about the Spike (BTW I am leaving GW in December to start my own thing so I won't be around). The Spike was a two-day event that drew 38 coaches, with 2 from the UK and several from the US. These events can work and we have proof. The Spike didn't cost GW a dime either (we at least broke even on the event).
2) I don't think you need a domain but they do need a dedicated page on the US GW site. We had one for the Spike.
3) I ran a 2 page article on BB the month before the Spike in the Candian WD. Half of one of those pages was an ad for the Spike. I like to do contextual articles like this when events are looming.
4) After the Tourney Director is confirmed I will be looking into getting the NAF more involved in running these majors. I think we need to take the helm becuase IMO they aren't living up to expectations at the moment.
5) League support never hurts...
If you want to get Joe in touch with me I can give him the lowdown on the Spike. I won't be running it next year per se but I still hope to be involved. At least I've set an expectation here in the Canadian business of what a major should be (even though there are even more things we could do). |
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Anthony - Ex Presidente
www.xtbbf.org
Orion Cup - June 8, 2013
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absent |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2004 - 12:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 08, 2004
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I did say I'm for making it 2 days....
Gencon already has a tournament, your suggesting deleting a tournament from already under supported US fans....
If that was the nutshell....that musta been on helluva nut 
moral- Leave it in chicago, make it two days, do all the advertisment, we'll tell everyone how fun it was and pester them to go next year, you ALL fly in, we have a big ole tourney. fine. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2004 - 01:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 2319
Location: United States of America
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Two days versus one is a double edged sword. On one hand you're away from your family (for those of us that it's a factor) longer which is harder for most of us, but at the same time it's hard to justify the expense of a flight for a one-day event.
Maybe the Chaos Cup should be in Vegas. There's cheap flights to Vegas from just about anywhere in the US...of course then you risk losing some folks to the slot machines, etc  |
_________________
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President of the Lord Borak Fan Club
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Old_Man_Monkey |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2004 - 02:26 PM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2003
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All right, brand new dad, point taken - but if it were announced early enough, cheap flights can be had and roomies can be found as you know.
Not true, absent, what I'm saying is that the US Major tournament absolutely should be a two day tournament that is well supported - all of you folks in and around Chicago can, and should, organize a regional tournament - one or two day - if you're up for it.
I think this has probably been hashed to death - one final point for those who may not have seen how other majors or large tournaments are usually organized:
a. on site computer for tournament results and seeding - I understand Joe was running with results to another building!
b. enough staff so that coaches are not having to stop their games and answer rules questions (not that most coaches aren't perfectly willing to help, but it shouldn't be counted upon, especially in a GW environment;
c. activities between games - pub quizzes, drawings, etc -
d. online registration: this is becoming standard in most other parts of the world and the code and how to use it has been around this site for nearly a year;
e. staff familiar with the tournament software - 'nuff said on that...
And I guess it was one helluva nut, absent - thanks for letting me rant a little - having seen how much fun the large tourneys (mostly indie) are, I just want to see that kind of experience available here for US coaches...
absent wrote: moral- Leave it in chicago, make it two days, do all the advertisment, we'll tell everyone how fun it was and pester them to go next year, you ALL fly in, we have a big ole tourney. fine.
Perfect - with the added caveat that GW-US improve on their side as well and give Joe some help and support...
-OMM |
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Tournament Organizer - The Three Kingdoms Challenge
Semi-retired NAF staff
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2004 - 02:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Posts: 2319
Location: United States of America
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| What no comment on the Vegas idea? |
_________________
aka Rob (NAF #248)
President of the Lord Borak Fan Club
Founder of the GCLU
Commissioner, TO, Goblin King, NEBBN TSO
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2004 - 03:24 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Melifaxis wrote: What no comment on the Vegas idea?
A Vegas tournament would be a good sell to the Rest of World... |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Old_Man_Monkey |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2004 - 03:30 PM
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| Gonna save that fight only if it's needed.... right now, we'll see what we can do with GW-US and Chicago, then if needed to GenCon. I support Galak getting first crack at anyting outside of GW's boundaries because he's earned it... Tom's tournament is great fun and it's still the one place I can count on seeing Darthnoir, Snotsngrots, and my west coast friends... |
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Tournament Organizer - The Three Kingdoms Challenge
Semi-retired NAF staff
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Grumbledook |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2004 - 03:40 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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man i'd go to vegas ;]
prolly save up and quit my job and stay till i'm broke heh |
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Jon
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TiMuN |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 10, 2004 - 05:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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| Hey Grum, you are broke already!! |
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