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Milo |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Aug 28, 2006 - 12:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Switzerland
Posts: 127
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Status: Offline
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| Casualties involve more luck, but a bashing team earns more casualties by forcing more rolls, hence they deserve some sort of reward. It still shouldn't count as much as winning the game, though. |
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Milo
Ex-BBRC Goon
Commish at Large
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Notorious_jtb |
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Posted: Aug 29, 2006 - 10:41 AM
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Joined: Sep 02, 2005
Canada
Posts: 1456
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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I'm a big fan of a (proper) football based scoring system.
Win = 3
Draw (tie) = 1
Loss = 0
Tiebreakers
TD +/-
Cas +/-
Results versus particular oponents
This way no body who looses is above anyone who ties, but a player who wins 3-0 is above someone who wins 1-0.
In fact you are above everyone who does not have an equal or better record (win/tie/loss) as yourself, which is surely what its all about.
This also leaves very little maths to be done!
We may use this at the new tournament in Ottawa next year (if i win the debate  ) |
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 30, 2006 - 08:25 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
Status: Offline
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Aramil wrote: Causing a Cas it's just a question of luck... it's two dices and getting a 10 instead of a 9.
Sorry - but that's nonsense. Casualties are a question of making more blocks/fouls/crowd pushes - having the right skills and occassionally a bit of luck.
It is no different to scoring TDs which generally rely on good tactics - minimising the risky rolls and occassionally a bit of luck. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Aramil |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 31, 2006 - 03:03 AM
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Joined: Mar 17, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 424
Location: Rovigo, Italy
Status: Offline
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Doubleskulls wrote: Aramil wrote: Causing a Cas it's just a question of luck... it's two dices and getting a 10 instead of a 9.
Sorry - but that's nonsense. Casualties are a question of making more blocks/fouls/crowd pushes - having the right skills and occassionally a bit of luck.
It is no different to scoring TDs which generally rely on good tactics - minimising the risky rolls and occassionally a bit of luck.
Sorry Ian, but I disagree with you on that topic... Haven't you ever seen a match where the "light" team (like an elvish one...) get much more cas than the "heavy" one?
I did... and many times! I remember an orc vs norse match at the DungeonBowl 2004 (where I met you) between an incredible hitter like Tim against an Italian girl, Margot, who was still learning to play... and it ended with 0 cas (the in-famous "Mighty Pillow Match").
In your opinion Tim is a coach who doesn't know how to hit? Definately not, in my opinion, but in that match he was always rolling 9 instead of 10... and that's a question of luck.
For many teams getting a KO it's as useful as a cas... so why a cas should give points and the KOs not? What's the difference between the two?
PS: we're talking about "normal" CAS, I think... so fouls and crowd cas doesn't count, isn't it? If you count also those two.. ok, so it's a bit more tactical than the easy throwing two dices... but still the difference between getting the points or not is decided by the dices |
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Fulvio Cavicchi
Last edited by Aramil on Aug 31, 2006 - 03:18 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 31, 2006 - 03:16 AM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 1146
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I agree with Ian... Did I just say that?  
There is often a fair amount of luck involved in getting those TD's as well. Dodging through three tackle zones to pick up the ball in a tackle zone and 2 GFI for the TD. We've all seen the crazy plays before. It's the skill of the coach that minimises the amount of dice rolling needed. Always rolling a 9 instead of a 10 is a matter of the odds not of luck.
I can agree though that getting a KO in a tournament is often as usefull as a CAS. |
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Brian St.James
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SolarFlare |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 31, 2006 - 06:07 AM
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Joined: Nov 24, 2004
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I think there is merit to both sides of this. Sure, maximizing your chances of getting casualties is a matter of skill: lining up as many as possible 2 die blocks against (hopefully) a low AV opponent.
On the other hand, casualties tend to come in streaks. At a recent tournament, I (with a human team) caused 5 casualties in the first three turns against a Dwarf team. The next game, a (non-Khemri) coach caused 6 casualties to me in the first four turns. At a tournament last year, I lined my elves up against an experienced Khemri coach. I cringed when he won the opening toss and received. He caused his first casualty of the match on turn 5 of the 2nd half. Go figure.
I don't have a problem with, well, any of the scoring systems. And there is definitely something to maximizing your chances of causing casualties. But I think we've all seen some games where the blood just flowed... and it wasn't always due to great strategy. |
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Yavatol |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 31, 2006 - 10:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Posts: 64
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Same goes for high scoring games. That's not always up to strategy. Ever seen a 'heavy' team defeat a 'light' team because they did manage to pass the long bomb? I think Gorbad lost his first match an a Dutch Open 6-4 playing wood elves against humans (he'll hate me for bringing this up).
To avoid any discussion as to what is more important, valuable, depends on luck, we now use a 3/1/0 scheme for the Dutch Open, with TDs+Cas as the first tiebreaker. It has the disadvantage that in all likelyhood the tournament (100 players, 5 round) is decided on the tiebreaker, so you need to win and score TDs and/or Cas. But in the end that is what schemes that awards points for TDs and Cas down to, too. |
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TuernRedvenom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 01, 2006 - 02:02 AM
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Joined: Dec 28, 2003
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Personally I think counting CAS for scoring is a good idea but it needs to be "capped" at a max amount of point gained per game. (and no my view on this has nothing to do with my DO 2nd place on CAS tiebreaker )
Because CAS scoring is more a case of luck then td's, especially because it's a whole lot easier to set up a casualty cascade once you get lucky in the first few turns, just having average luck over the rest of the half will still insure you more CAS as you're playing with more players and can take more advantegous blocks/fouls.
You can't really do that with TD's. If you are lucky early on to score a TD you will still need luck for the rest of the game for a TD cascade.
Furthermore usually having a CAS cascade going will mean scoring some easy TD's (picking up points from those too  ). OTOH scoring many TD's does not increase your chance on scoring a casualty (on the contrary even, as the opponent gets the chance to CAS you first while he receives). |
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Grumbledook |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 24, 2006 - 01:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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The spikey club system is good imho
iirc
10 win
5 draw
0 lose
+1 for td (3 max)
+1 for cas (3 max)
I believe it covers most concerns. Though it would be possible for a coach who lost every game 4-3 and got 3 cas finishes above a coach who drew each game 0-0 but thats highly unlikely. |
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'Boomshanker an Interception'
Jon
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Buggrit |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 26, 2006 - 04:54 AM
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Joined: Aug 04, 2006
In your dugout pimping your cheerleaders!
Posts: 62
Location: In your dugout pimping your cheerleaders!
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Our League used this system when it started.
3 win
1 draw
0 loss
+1 for 3or< TD's
+1 for 5or< CAS's inflicted by Blocking or Fouling
When we restart the League this Saturday I'm changing a few things...
we'll be playing as
5 win
3 draw
1 loss
Bonuses for TD's will remain as they are
Bonuses for CAS's will be set so that you need to make 12-Oppositions LM's Armour number of CAS's for bonus points...
Which means Vs Halflings you need 6 Cas's
Vs Wood Elf = 5
Vs Dwarf = 3
This is just to reflect the difficulty of causing a CAS against that opponent. With the system we were using it was far easier to get the CAS bonus Vs Halflings than against Dwarves. I got 9 CAS against Halflings using my Orc team and they were down to 2 on pitch at the end of the match with both Treemen injured or KO'ed. |
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Buggrit I telt 'em, Millennium Hand and Shrimp. Buggrit!!
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