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Glamdryn |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Jan 26, 2012 - 10:16 AM
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Joined: Sep 16, 2009
United States of America
Posts: 203
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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Rando, I'd like to run this with you if that's alright. Google docs are our friend. I suggest we work to create a doc with all possible east coast tournaments and TO contact information. Then we can mass email everyone and decide on final rules for points and structure for the year. As Lizardcore said the points don't really mean anything. I'd like for that to change, but I also would like the ECGP to be secondary to having a great and relaxed time at tournaments and maybe some great rivalries will unfold outside of local players.
Ill set up a google doc in the near future and post it in this thread for anyone to add their information. |
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Glamdryn |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 26, 2012 - 01:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 16, 2009
United States of America
Posts: 203
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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Tournament List
Above is a link to the Tournament List for the East Coast Grand Prix. If you are a tournament organizer and would like to have your tournament be a part of the ECGP please add your info.
Tab 2 contains ideas about how the ECGP should function, please add your own.
Rando, please take a look and edit/comment as you see fit. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 26, 2012 - 07:01 PM
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Joined: May 09, 2008
Canada
Posts: 207
Location: Canada
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Sounds great Glamdryn, I have a few tournaments (one in Niagara for sure) and contact info to add to that list.
I think it might be good to make the document private since it has personal email addresses, if you keep it public it should contain NAF names only. You and I are even calling each other Glamdryn and Rando right now, liekwise I think the TO column should contain only NAF names. We could have two lists maybe? One for the public and then one for you and I to share which would contain all the info we need for the GP.
I'd love to compare ideas through this "Tab 2" but I can't find it. Can anyone help me out here?
Thanks!
Rando |
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Glamdryn |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 27, 2012 - 07:25 AM
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Joined: Sep 16, 2009
United States of America
Posts: 203
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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Rando wrote: Sounds great Glamdryn, I have a few tournaments (one in Niagara for sure) and contact info to add to that list.
I think it might be good to make the document private since it has personal email addresses, if you keep it public it should contain NAF names only. You and I are even calling each other Glamdryn and Rando right now, liekwise I think the TO column should contain only NAF names. We could have two lists maybe? One for the public and then one for you and I to share which would contain all the info we need for the GP.
I'd love to compare ideas through this "Tab 2" but I can't find it. Can anyone help me out here?
Thanks!
Rando
The Google Doc is only accessible by people that click on the link above, so pretty much just NAF folks or passerbys of the site. Im not worried about giving my email out or name. I suggest every TO should have a separate email account for Blood Bowl stuff. If you still think we need a private doc after reading this, I can create one.
At the bottom you should see "Tournament List", "Ideas/Comment", and "Living Rules" as three separate tabs. Just click on Ideas to bring up the discussion of how we could run the ECGP. |
Last edited by Glamdryn on Jan 27, 2012 - 11:14 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Lizardcore |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 27, 2012 - 10:37 AM
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Joined: Apr 07, 2004
Posts: 513
Status: Offline
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Comment added.
For hte follow up between years, you don't have to worry about the scoring system. Just use the scoring system in use and apply it to last year results. |
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Notorious_jtb |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 28, 2012 - 07:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 02, 2005
Canada
Posts: 1456
Location: Canada
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Just to weigh in here, I missed this due to focussing on the NATC bidding process.
I have a few thoughts:
>Privacy: Absolutely the contact information of NAF memebrs needs to be private unless everyone on the list gives permission for public display of their contact information/names.
>Rules system: Any changes to the ECGP rules system should be discussed in full before we go ahead. I believe a number of system thoughts we to be discussed at the first event of the season, the CCKO in Ottawa this weekend at the prize giving for the 2011 season. There is no need for the different Grand Prix to have the same rules for the sake matching.
>Simplicity: The simpler the better. We have lots of different rules at different tournaments. We don't play a simple game. Any rules should be understandable at a quick glance to the casual observer. We are going for engagement right? Having awards for "Best Stunty Coach on the ECGP" would be awesome for instance.
>Money: I have heard a lot of talk about money. I don't think this is a good idea. We don't need to add costs to tournament attendance to fund an engagement strategy. Glory and token prizes are enough. We removed "prizes" organically from most Eastern Canada tournaments in 2007 as the costs were causing losses for tournament organisers. Trophies are more glorious by far.
>History: Keeping these records is awesome. Anything that adds to the depth of the experience and history of the Blood Bowl scene is great and I applaud all efforts to increase tracking of data. And to Lizzie's point, we can manipulate each years data to say, wow under the 2056 system Jrock56 would have won the 2011 grand prix 
I think we have a great thing going here, I want to applaud the efforts of the Grand Prix organisers in 2011! I also want to applaud the Tournament Organisers who sent their results in to be tracked so we could have these great standings!
Awesome that we had a tie in 2011  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 28, 2012 - 11:04 PM
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Joined: May 09, 2008
Canada
Posts: 207
Location: Canada
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Thanks Glamdryn, I added a few comments but I wanted to summarize my thoughts here in greater detail.
I see the ECGP evolving, for sure, but over the next 2-3 years. 2012 really strikes me as a year to promote the ECGP rather than use the ECGP to promote the larger tournaments and to design it to do so.
My vision for 2012 is for it to be a "Spread the word" year. I find the appeal of the 2011 rule set is that it can be explained in one sentence. I find this is a great way to promote it and get players excited about it. What were the 2011 rules are described in the document under "Part C" which I find a little confusing because I feel that if it isn't part A it sould really be the whole thing.
Of the 14 tournaments in the ECGP in 2011 there were 4 which had only 10 players. I believe that the "cut off" should be 10 and not 12. IT doesn't suit our community.
My concern with multiple means of garnering points (travel, number of days of the tournament, size of tournament etc) is that it starts to feel like I am doing my taxes, I feel that the ECGP should be about fostering a sense of community and encouraging conversation rather than choosing which tournament to go to because it will earn you the most points ...
... with this I am concerned that we may penalize the small tournaments (10 players) by awarding so many points to the large ones. The idea behind the ECGP is to create a thread that flows through the whole season, it is not a promotional vehicle to get more people to the large tournaments.
I do not believe that a player will choose to travel to a tournament simply for these points, travel points or not, this is really just for fun.
To answer a comment from the document, in 2011 the initials of non-NAF members were used. We had 99 players (not all of whom were NAF members and so I strongly believe that we should track all players in a tournament, if we do not do this then some tournaments might skip giving 10 points to the first place player because they are non-NAF ... or worse their would be 10 points awarded to the top NAF player. This does not seem to be something that would encourage players to join the NAF. The ECGP is not a recruitment tool for the NAF in my view.
My concern with prizes is that some players who do not care about the ECGP will wonder why their money is going towards these prizes ... this is like a small government type of question ... and it also places a burden on the TO to send out the money to the ECGP. It simply doesn't seem worth it, especially since the medals for "Coach of the year" have all been made for the next few years.
It's great to see so many ideas out here. It should be a good year!
R. |
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Glamdryn |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 31, 2012 - 08:40 AM
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Joined: Sep 16, 2009
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Posts: 203
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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Taking Rando's and JTB's comments, I have pushed in the results of CCKO and edited the scoring structure.
As I told JTB via PM, I created this topic to fuel debate and transparency in the ECGP discussion. Anyone can edit the discussion google doc. If you put your contact info into that spreadsheet you are letting whomever clicks on the link to read that information. The great thing about google docs is that as a community we can share the responsibilities of editing them and keeping them up to date. So whomever would like editable access to the Standings just PM me and Ill include you on the edit list.
I do not want to steal anyone's thunder, but rather to include whomever wants to participate in the structure and formula of the ECGP to do so.
So please if you think something is dumb and going in the wrong direction speak up and make a change.
ECGP Tournament List and Discussion
ECGP Standings 2012
ECGP Standings 2011 |
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Lizardcore |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 31, 2012 - 03:03 PM
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Joined: Apr 07, 2004
Posts: 513
Status: Offline
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Good job with the file Glamdryn !
I like the final scoring system, and I like the fact that we have a good visibility of who is who, who is NAF...
Maybe put the links in your forum signature, and in the first post of the thread ? or maybe even start a new thread just about the East cost 2012 rankings ?
btw, I'll try to post pictures of the medal Rando kindly gave us |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 31, 2012 - 09:43 PM
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Joined: May 09, 2008
Canada
Posts: 207
Location: Canada
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Looks like the ECGP is in good hands!
PG is Bellowthunderslam
RP is Talons
SL is Grog The Impaler
MG is Dtleaon72488
CV and GM do not have NAF names yet.
Thanks! |
Last edited by Rando on Jan 31, 2012 - 10:54 PM; edited 1 time in total
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 31, 2012 - 09:47 PM
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Joined: May 09, 2008
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Posts: 207
Location: Canada
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I notice that you have under rules a requirement that everyone needs to belong to the NAF to be in the ECGP. I still find this strange. If a non NAF member wins first place (10 points) and isn't included than the ECGP is actually going to be short 10 points at the end of the year. Those points shouldn't disappear
OR
The top placing NAF player is considered to be first and gets the 10 points even if he actually only placed 3rd. This again makes it seem strange to not include non NAF members because the rankings will not actually reflect how coaches placed ... only how they placed relative to other NAF members.
As I mentioned above in 2011 the name of the coach (say Ryan M.) is put in the list. I am still not clear as to why this needs to be NAF exclusive give these arguments. |
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zootsuitjeff |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 31, 2012 - 11:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 29, 2010
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Posts: 125
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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| My personal take on naf requirement: I require WCGP tourneys to be NAF approved just to make sure they are open to everyone and not the "2 guys in the basement" sort of deal. but i never require people to actually be in NAF to get points, i just encourage. |
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Glamdryn |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 01, 2012 - 07:45 AM
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Joined: Sep 16, 2009
United States of America
Posts: 203
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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Rando wrote: I notice that you have under rules a requirement that everyone needs to belong to the NAF to be in the ECGP. I still find this strange. If a non NAF member wins first place (10 points) and isn't included than the ECGP is actually going to be short 10 points at the end of the year. Those points shouldn't disappear
OR
The top placing NAF player is considered to be first and gets the 10 points even if he actually only placed 3rd. This again makes it seem strange to not include non NAF members because the rankings will not actually reflect how coaches placed ... only how they placed relative to other NAF members.
As I mentioned above in 2011 the name of the coach (say Ryan M.) is put in the list. I am still not clear as to why this needs to be NAF exclusive give these arguments.
It is in the discussions tab, but not in the actually scoring right now, unless there is consensus. It seems like most people think that there should not be an NAF requirement. So youll see in the standings spreadsheet that you have two columns, Name and NAF ID /Initials. All players will be shown here. |
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Lizardcore |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 01, 2012 - 07:54 AM
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Joined: Apr 07, 2004
Posts: 513
Status: Offline
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zootsuitjeff wrote: make sure they are open to everyone and not the "2 guys in the basement" sort of deal.
OMG, could we please keep talking about bloodbowl and not your private life  |
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Glamdryn |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 01, 2012 - 08:02 AM
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Joined: Sep 16, 2009
United States of America
Posts: 203
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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I think the Standings sheet looks good. But the scoring structure is not set in stone. If anyone has any ideas, chime in. If you know of people that don't check the boards often, ask them what they think.
One thing that as a community we need to work on, is submitting our tourneys onto the NAF site as soon as possible to give everyone a heads up as to the upcoming years tournament scene.
If you are a Tournament Organizer and you are planing to throw a tournament this year and want to submit results to the ECGP, at least shout out the name, location, and month of when you plan on doing it, all of this info can be tentative, but it'll be a good start to showing potential players of the east that there is a large and active community.
If anyone wants editing access to the Standings sheet please PM me. I think there should be more than just one person who has access. |
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