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Xtreme |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Aug 12, 2003 - 09:47 AM
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Da Boss
Joined: Mar 12, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1096
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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Remember that this is a hobby, and that painting is part of that hobby. If you judged everything solely on the on-pitch results, no one would care about Painting or Sportsmanship; if you judged everything solely on the field and Sportsmanship, no one would care about painting.
I don't want to line up against people who use unpainted or very poorly painted teams in my own league, much less a tournament I've paid money to attend. It looks sloppy because it is sloppy. If including these points encourages everybody to take that part of the hobby a bit more seriously, I'm all for it.
-Chet[/quote]
I don't mind having a requirement that all models be painted but my biggest concern is the trend of having other people paint your models for you. Takes the painting out of the hobby. I think if the painting was kept seperate then people wouldn't feel like they have to show up with a great painted team and would bring one that they painted themselves. |
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jmccubbin |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 12, 2003 - 10:44 AM
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How about a penalty if you did not paint your own team, say 5 points. so a person who shows up with a nicly painted team, that they did not paint, would even out to a person who tried to paint their team thenselves, but did not do as good of a job.
People who do sloppy paint job would still get less than people who had their painting done for them, but people with average paint jobs that did it themselves would average 1-2 points more. People who did great jobs themselves would get the most.
Have this count to the Best painted team award, and not the overall win. Only have penalites to over all win for un-painted teams.
With my game record, I would still be proud to walk away with Best painted team, not so good coaching. |
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Officially 0-1-1 in NAF.
At least my team looked good.
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 12, 2003 - 12:44 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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Cannot remember everywhere I posted the point system for next year, but painting will count even less.
I'm just a big fan of the "people's champion" system where sportsmanship and eye candy appeal matter. So at least for GenCon those things are going to count.
Basically GenCon will be the Blood Bowl inverted. The Blood Bowl does the best 3 game point teams as 1st through 3rd and then has a people's champion that is the highest game point + plus sport and paint (IF I understand correctly). The GenCon tournament will be the top 1 to 3 people's champion with a special award for the player with the most game points (Best Tactician).
As for painting ... I think its important. When I sit across from a fine painted team I have more fun regardless of the source of the paint job. ... that's just my take on the game.
Now the real last 2 questions for me are:
1) Will I have time to finish converting and painting my team for the Underworld Cup.
2) I'm 80% sure I can go the tournament at Origins next year, so hopefully Jim has luck organizing it.
Tom/Galak |
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AnthonyTBBF |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 12, 2003 - 02:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Toronto, ON
Posts: 1313
Location: Toronto, ON
Status: Offline
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| I don't think who painted the models matter that much. I don't think someone should win a Best Painted award if they didn''t apint their own models, but for points puposes I could care less. Some people just don't like to paint (although I can't imagine why!). |
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Anthony - Ex Presidente
www.xtbbf.org
Orion Cup - June 8, 2013
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Xtreme |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 13, 2003 - 12:04 AM
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Da Boss
Joined: Mar 12, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1096
Location: United States of America
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| the only reason that I care who painted them is that I kind of feel like the time I put into my models was wasted. Since I knew before hand that I am not a good painter I should have just saved some money and had someone paint them for me. I think the whole thing helps to take painting out of the hobby, and encourages you to get your team a proffesional look by paying for it. |
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jmccubbin |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 13, 2003 - 04:59 AM
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Joined: Mar 12, 2003
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Xtreme wrote: I think the whole thing helps to take painting out of the hobby, and encourages you to get your team a proffesional look by paying for it.
I am sorry, but I not sure I understand your logic. As far as hobby goes for blood bowl, painting is pretty much %90 of the hobby.
Now if you are refering that 'the whole thing' being scores for tourneys, then ok it makes sense. If not please explain 'the whole thing'
James |
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Officially 0-1-1 in NAF.
At least my team looked good.
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Indigo |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 13, 2003 - 07:31 AM
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Da Warboss
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
Posts: 2168
Location: England
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| nah IMO the BB hobby is 1/3 minis & painting, 1/3 tournaments (or leagues) and 1/3 the friends you make out of it. |
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NAF #60
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Xtreme |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 13, 2003 - 01:30 PM
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Da Boss
Joined: Mar 12, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1096
Location: United States of America
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| The whole thing was refering to a situation where people are bieng rewarded for not painting their own teams. |
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Old_Man_Monkey |
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Posted: Aug 13, 2003 - 02:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2003
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I'm not sure how I'm being 'rewarded' for bringing a team to a tournament that someone else has painted - I am not eligible for any painting award by doing so, and the only real pleasure is bragging on a good painter who did a nice job painting the team and seeing how other players appreciate their work.
I agree 100% that painting awards as part of a competition should go only to those who have painted their own minis - I'm equally convinced that establishing a baseline of completion and grading those teams that are playing, whether painted by the player or someone else, should not come into play in determining rankings or standings.
The exception should be where two players are equal in match scoring and sportsmanship totals but have differing painting levels.
-OMM
Just my thoughts . . . |
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Tournament Organizer - The Three Kingdoms Challenge
Semi-retired NAF staff
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 19, 2003 - 11:58 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Location: Undisclosed
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| Well, for me, the games are 20%, the minis 4%, the painting 1%, the friends and laughs 75%. |
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_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 20, 2003 - 07:16 AM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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jmccubbin wrote: I am sorry, but I not sure I understand your logic. As far as hobby goes for blood bowl, painting is pretty much %90 of the hobby.
This is where opinions differ. You clearly enjoy painting. It's painful for me. I think I'd enjoy chewing broken glass and gargling with orange juice better. I love the minis and enjoy converting them, I hate to paint them. I know exactly where Extreme is coming from and I am having a hard time believing that no one else can grasp what he's saying.
If it were me making the rules, all teams would have to be painted as they are now. Painting would have absolutely no bearing on the tournament. Painting would be a sort of mini competition in itself where all the teams that were painted by the coaches would be lined up and judged by the coaches that play or just the coaches that painted their own minis, I don't know which is better. I always thought this was how it was done until I actually went to a tourney. I can't believe the way it's done now is supported by so many.
This way all the teams that were painted by coaches would be competeing only against other teams that were painted by coaches. The way it stands now, a nice team painted by one of us might get no credit if he were unlucky enough to play against people who drew others who had professionally painted teams. |
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Snew
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 20, 2003 - 02:28 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
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Guys I am seriously considering changing the way painting is done next year. Its the last thing I'm thinking about changing.
I may switch to a system more like the Blood Bowl and Chaos Cup.
Minimum to get into tournament: 2 colors and painted bases however that will get you 0 painting points.
5 points will be awarded for 4 or more colors used in the figure in some organized fashion.
5 points will be awarded for flocking, sanding, static grass, etc on the bases.
5 points will be awarded for detailing the miniature. Eye, lips, uniform details, lines between the fingernails, etc.
That way everyone pro painted or not can get 15 painting points.
Players gets 15 points for painting who painted their own teams will be asked to display their team over the 1st day's lunch for voting. The winner of Best Painted will get an additional 5 points.
This is about as fair as I can get the system. This way effort will count and hiring a painter to compete will not be required.
Galak |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 20, 2003 - 05:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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| I think that's a great way to do it Tom. Go with that. |
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Snew
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AnthonyTBBF |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 20, 2003 - 05:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Location: Toronto, ON
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 21, 2003 - 06:30 AM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2003
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I'm not a big fan of forcing people to paint their teams though I do understand why some people are. It's obvious that playing with or against a painted team is a much more pleasing ecperience but there are those out there that just don't want to be bothered to paint their team. To me that's where painting and sportsmanship points come in.
If I played against a coach with a bare metal team then he would not be getting many, if any sportsmanship points from me. And since that person would also not be getting any painting points they'd probably only be hurting themselves in the end.
To exclude people simply because their team isn't painted seems somewhat rude to me. In or local league, when it runs, we change teams so oftem that most people never finish painting a team.
At the Death Bowl I won't be forcing peple to paint their teams but I will be using the painting points system outlined below.
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Team Appearance
A portion of tournament points will be awarded based upon team painting and presentation. Up to 10 points are awarded for team painting based on the criteria below. The official tournament judges will evaluate each team based on these 4 points and not on the aesthetics of the team. This means that any painter of any standard can gain the maximum 10 points if he puts the effort in and follows the guidelines below. All judges decisions are final.
Based - 2 point: All the bases in the team, including sideline staff, are painted and textures in some manner. Just being painted green is not enough!
Painted - 2 points: The team is painted. All models have at least 3 colors on them. Undercoats must not be visible.
Detailed - 2 point: All models have had the details painted in a variety of colors or with noticeable effects. This can be shading or highlighting etc. This discriminates between the merely painted team and the team that has had attention paid to it.
Representative - 4 points: All models on the team are representative of the race and position that they are meant to represent. Extra weapons not part of a finished and painted figure are removed. This does not mean that you must use official Blood Bowl miniatures. Only that an Ogre should look like an Ogre, a Dwarf should look like a Dwarf and so on.
IMPORTANT: In order to get the point all models in the team must fulfill the criteria. If even one model fails the points will not be awarded.
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Brian |
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