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zootsuitjeff |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Jan 10, 2012 - 06:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 29, 2010
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@jonny: Yes my mistake confusion. I read the original suggestion as one double roll for each coach/player, but you really just meant one skill per team.
I do think the idea of the team of four coaches sharing skills as really interesting from a strategic metagame perspective. But i do think allowing too much shifting would make things less fun. I don't think teams should be too heavily under/over loaded so as to make a particular game uncompetitive. That would be less fun.
I think including inducements as part of your purchase price could be okay to do or not do, but I don't think you should calculate TV and do inducements before each game. That would be annoying to have to do. |
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Notorious_jtb |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 10, 2012 - 06:51 PM
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Joined: Sep 02, 2005
Canada
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Yeah I love the conversation but I think people should probably expect a simple is best approach for a hopefully large event. I would love to see some of these concepts tested at smaller tournaments where the people know each other better first.
Not saying stop the chat though, great stuff. |
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Jonny_P |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 10, 2012 - 08:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Shaman, I like the concept of taking it a step further, but I think to stick with the theme of "easy" which again is both for coaches and TOs, its best to just have each coach build his team with 1.1mil, no skills.
Could you imagine checking rosters where teams come up at 950k, then 1020k, etc?
So you let each coach build his team with the allowed money, then give the coach-team capatain a group skill pack to be distributed to his coach-team like in my example. Make him submit all four rosters during pre-reg too.
JTB: The one problem is, we dont really have other team touranments to test something like this at. I think it would work, just with skills, no money or anything else. |
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Notorious_jtb |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 10, 2012 - 10:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 02, 2005
Canada
Posts: 1456
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Good point J_P.
We have one in Ontario where we might be able to float it, the Lakeside Cup.
It does make it interesting indeed, I wonder how people feel with the difference in skills each team recieved not affecting TV and the relative result between the coaches? I mean it might suck if you played the one coach who got the max possible skills and you went balanced. I know your team would benefit but.....
I could see someone doing that to win the individual best player award for instance and power gaming their way to victory. |
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Jonny_P |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 11, 2012 - 06:58 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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I suppose a cap like Dennis mentioned would be ok then if neccessary.
But really 1 skill per player, even on a full team won't make them unstopabble.
Say a Wood Elf coach was the greedy one and skilled up his speciality players, then gave all his linemen block or wrestle. Yes it would help, but I have a feeling with AV7 he's still going to be dodging each turn with the goal of only allowing the one blitz and no blocks in the opponents next turn.
When it comes to powergaming and the likes, I've only really noticed issues when stacking skills.
I did it once. I made a Wardancer ST4 and loaded up on skills. First turn, Jeremy blitzed him with a Black Orc + assist, knocked him down, then team fouled him and he was out for the game before my turn 1! I learned my lesson in that game. Spread the wealth when it comes to skills.
Another limitation that has worked at some tournaments is limited the amount of times a skill can be taken. Two times is what I've seen.
Going to the 24 Skill Pack example with that added element, If i'm that Halfling coach, I think I'm taking the two blocks for my Treeman, with the argument of "Hey, I'm playing Halflings you d**k!"
Sets some nice limitations with teams that base their whole strategy on loading up on Guard too.
Something to think about. |
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 11, 2012 - 08:03 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Location: Kent, UK
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Jonny_P wrote: Could you imagine checking rosters where teams come up at 950k, then 1020k, etc?
At Euc Bowl, and other tournaments where people are allowed to buy inducements the total roster value is still 1.1m (or whatever). Inducements should be picked and added to the roster - bringing it up to the limit. There is no messing around with people being 20k under to try and stop someone else taking a wizard. Also you don't want people messing around picking the best combination of inducements at the start of a round for their current opponent.
For skills the cost of the skill would be included in the player cost - just as you would in league play. |
_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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daloonieshaman |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 11, 2012 - 08:14 AM
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Joined: Feb 28, 2003
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| Consider this get a team pack (say 20+4) limit the skill (say 4) the group may have. Ex: you may only add 4 blocks or 4 dodges. This requires a ton of teamwork. |
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Lizardcore |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 11, 2012 - 09:07 AM
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daloonieshaman wrote: Consider this get a team pack (say 20+4) limit the skill (say 4) the group may have. Ex: you may only add 4 blocks or 4 dodges. This requires a ton of teamwork.
And restrict the choices... in your example, with only 4 blocks, then obviously everybody will be playing dwarfs and norse... moreover, one could put 2 blocks on his mummies... hurra...
Keep it simple dude, it works ! The main thing is the event itself, not the rules. It doesnt have to have weird special rules, is is already so special on it's own !!! |
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Notorious_jtb |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 11, 2012 - 09:40 AM
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Joined: Sep 02, 2005
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The more I think about this the more I feel uncomfortable with the "team skills pack" concept.
I think it sounds like a fun concept but I think we have to have a true reflection of Team Value.
I think there are a number of flavours of how you restrict or allow skills to be added, either "free" or purchased within some limits. This is just a little too far from standard. I agree with Lizzardcore, simple is good. |
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daloonieshaman |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 11, 2012 - 10:51 AM
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Quote: The more I think about this the more I feel uncomfortable with the "team skills pack" concept.
so jtb:
4 x 1.1 (or what ever)
no skills
all inducements (but cards for obvious reasons)
4 separate races
Standard Weather
Standard Kickoff Table |
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Jonny_P |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 11, 2012 - 11:09 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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With or without skill or money packs is fine with me. Just throwing some random ideas out there.
Teams better show up in matching shirts/hats/underwear tho! |
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daloonieshaman |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 11, 2012 - 11:17 AM
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Joined: Feb 28, 2003
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Jonny_P wrote: With or without skill or money packs is fine with me. Just throwing some random ideas out there.
Teams better show up in matching shirts/hats/underwear tho!
pants and shoes not allowed 
we are throwing ideas and that's what it is all about. even Jonny has a good idea , well maybe not Jonny, but you get the jest. |
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Notorious_jtb |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 11, 2012 - 11:40 AM
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Joined: Sep 02, 2005
Canada
Posts: 1456
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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daloonieshaman wrote: Quote: The more I think about this the more I feel uncomfortable with the "team skills pack" concept.
so jtb:
4 x 1.1 (or what ever)
no skills
all inducements (but cards for obvious reasons)
4 separate races
Standard Weather
Standard Kickoff Table
That is probably close to where we will end up Daloonie.
But in addition I would say I am very open to some sort of skills option.
The WC II did this:
3 normal skills prior to game 1
2 skills prior to game 4 (1 normal 1 double)
2 skills prior to game 7 (1 normal 1 double)
No stacking of skills and all skills had to be selected and recorded before the tournament begins.
I am quite happy with all skills at the start. It was a little more confusing on days 2 and 3 particularly as everyone was more tired and things changing adds confusion. If things are the same for 3 days all is simpler. I like simpler.
I am also happy making it a purchasing thing. e.g. 80,000 available to spend on skills. So that could mean a 1.18 TV but only 80,000 for skills.
I would probably say no stacking of skills i.e. one per player. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 11, 2012 - 11:46 AM
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Joined: May 09, 2008
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Posts: 207
Location: Canada
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Here's another option to think about. At the Lutece Bowl 2010 ( a 5 man team tournament) each coach built his team with a 1.1 mil skill package, nothing out of the ordinary.
However, each round of the tournament had a theme. So if round one was "Off to a foul Start" the captain of each team was given a coin-like token ( if I recall correctly) and on that coin was written "Dirty Player" and that coin was given to one member of the 5 coach team. That coach was then allowed to give any single individual player that skill for that game only. There was no tracking because you simply told your opponent; "I have the coin, it's on player 12".
I don't recall what the themes were but I am pretty sure there was one round with Accurate as a skill and the coach with the most complete passes in that round received a separate prize at the end of the tournament just like the coach who made the most fouls was lauded as well. N.B. You didn't have to be the coin holder to register the most successful passes/fouls.
Le Ong ran that tournament I believe, if anyone wanted to follow up. He is based in France. |
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Lizardcore |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 11, 2012 - 11:52 AM
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Joined: Apr 07, 2004
Posts: 513
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| Yeah, and they have T-shirts too for the most TD, the most Cas and the most fouls. Every round, the T-shirts are re-attributed. (well, If you plan to take the tshirt home at the end, you'd better start to lead early, so the T-shirt hasnt been use as sweat-sponge before ). |
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