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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Oct 05, 2005 - 07:33 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
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Babs what was his Undead roster with the Count?
Galak |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 05, 2005 - 07:41 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
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Babs wrote: 2. Make the count cost more. The undead team is about the only team that can afford such a powerful starter. PBBL 1.10 is raising the price of the Count to 390k ... should it be 400k?
I'm willing to go as high as 420k if that is the answer ... but I'd like to believe that 420k would be enough without going higher.
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freckles |
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Post subject: Count Luthor comments
Posted: Oct 05, 2005 - 07:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 17, 2003
Australia
Posts: 57
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Hi there,
Just a quick reply to the Count Luthor thing. I didn't play against him at MOAB but do believe that he is too valuable. Either he needs to have his cost goe up or gain something like Off for a Bite. JMHO.
Re: comments about how the tourney ran... As always I think you did a great job in running MOAB Stephen. My only comment is about sportsmanship. We have discussed this at length, and I still believe that, although there is no good way to do it , it is an extremely important part of the game. A thought is that you could up the 35 points to spread over 7 games to 49 points over 7 games. This would allow an average score of around 5 with room to move. As I said, there's no 'good' way to do it, so you just have to go with the option that you think works the best. If, at the end of the day, the person who gets best sportsman is a realistic result of the tourney then you are ahead. Personally, I will probably still go with sportsmanship out of 10, with each player nominating one player as thei best opponent of the tourney, using the 'best opponent' thing for tie breaks. Again, just my thoughts.
I had a great time at MOAB incidentally. I got whooped (still the lowest ranked Dwarf coach in Aus!  ) but played some really great guys and enjoyed myself. Thanks for running it!
Cheers!  |
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Emma
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biggy |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 05, 2005 - 11:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 13, 2003
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Yeah but she still whipped me 4-0!!! 
How's that for ogres being 'overpowered'? 
Andrew |
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"Crush your enemies. See them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women!"
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 06, 2005 - 06:02 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Location: Kent, UK
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? Did you use PBBL rules or LRB? Was it a resurrection style or league? If its league he shouldn't be able to have Luthor permanently under either rule set.
If its resurrection then I think the cost is about right. Other tournanments don't appear to have been too unbalanced by them at LRB4 costs. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 06, 2005 - 06:05 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
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| You could allow Gobbos to have permanents and no one else - but I don't think that is necessary. They will freeboot them often enough anyway. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 06, 2005 - 06:54 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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Doubleskulls wrote: If its resurrection then I think the cost is about right. Other tournanments don't appear to have been too unbalanced by them at LRB4 costs. I ask because a similar team won the Zlurpee Bowl.
Luthor
2 Mummies
1 Ghoul
8 Skeletons
1 Re-roll
2 FF
See went undefeated in 6 games.
I've never seen a team with a Star Player do well at any tournament I've allowed them for 3 years. This team was the first and it sounds like it showed up at MOAB as well.
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Chunky |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 06, 2005 - 03:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 16, 2005
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I don't really think its a problem to be honest. I was the first one who got stomped by Beefy. I had a shot to do well that game, but my luck wasn't there. Beefy played very well, and with excellent luck at the same time - he only had to use a single reroll the entire game - and that includes the counts dodge reroll.
If he had of been playing Wood Elves with that sort of luck and skill he'd have whooped me 4-0 like at Euc Bowl.
If you have a look at his report on AusBowl you'll see that he both played very well and was very lucky right through the event. You'd be hard pressed to beat the man whatever team he takes in that situation.
I think the situation was also exacerbated by upping the freeboot cost on the rest of the star players. This made it very difficult to hire a star to counter the Count. |
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 07, 2005 - 12:40 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
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| Eh? Now I'm hopelessly confused. What rules were you using? |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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biggy |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 07, 2005 - 12:52 AM
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| You're not the only one. Everyone was confused. The plethora of rules editions, addendums, reviews and experimentals out there meant that even Babs was confused at times as to what was canon and what wasn't |
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"Crush your enemies. See them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women!"
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OZjesting |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 07, 2005 - 09:10 AM
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Was it really that confusing? It was straight LRB 4. The only "extra" was the ability to hire star players permenantly for REALLY BIG money (400ish for count i think) and freeboot them for BIG money (180K for Griff etc). (I don't pay much attention to them as a High Elf coach) 
Other then that it was straight progression, normal rules. Babs may get confused as he IS dealing with all the variations...but from THIS players perspective it was all right there in the book. |
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Chunky |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 07, 2005 - 07:34 PM
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| I didn't have any trouble myself, but given the number of times I had to try and explain the thing with freebooting, it was definitely hard to explain. It was something you really had to have read IMO. The problem was a lot of people hadn't read the rules for the tourney - whether it was due to a lack of knowledge they were out there or not I don't know. |
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Babs |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 07, 2005 - 09:47 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
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It was straight LRB 4.0 - with the house rules document from www.geocities.com/blood-bowl. Players could hire Stars permanently (Luthor was 380K, for example) ,or freeboot them for half the _full_ price, not that listed. (so to freeboot Luthor would have been 190K)
However, I don't think that exacerbated the problem, because I don't want to see it become the winner being the one with the most star players - and an 'arms race'. |
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=-) Babs
Washed up old has been.
Ex-official GW Blood Bowl Rules Committee member
Ex-NAF Tournament Organiser, Australasia
Co-Author of the Feudball first novel.
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Chunky |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 07, 2005 - 11:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 16, 2005
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You allow Undead players to take the Count (as has been suggested, they are one of the few teams that can really take advantage of the fulltime stars), while denying other teams the chance to match him with someone vaguely equivalent it exacerbates the situation. The fact you don't want to make a star player arms race is irrelevant to that problem. The arms race already exists simply because one player has one.
I think you either need to ban them altogether or at least make it vaguely fair (ie fair to those teams that have decent ones) and allow open slather. By trying to make a compromise solution it effectively made things worse. |
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BeefyGoodness |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 08, 2005 - 05:13 PM
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Hi everyone, as the team in question I'll post it quickly here for those interested:
The count
2 mummies
2 ghouls
6 zombies
1 RR and FF 1
My experience through the tourney was one that highlighted the obvious benefits of having the count as a ball carrier, but by the same token, I really suffered whenever something failed. I do beleive that I should have lost against Twahns amazons...he knocked the count over 4? times in our match laid the boot into him a couple and generally had it all over me. The only thing that mitigated his ownership on the pitch was some really terrible crucial plays...mainly failing 3+ rolls with rerolls. As for chunkies example really he only needed to actually make a 3+ dodge with a RR and a pickup of the ball with his catcher and he would have been home free 1-0 in the first half. So whilst the count was IMO overpowered for a starting team (against same tr starting teams) it wasn't just the Count Luthor show. Also I suffered several injuries over the course of the tourney 7 or 8 iirc all of which were successfully regenerated...except for 1 bh zombie, I didn't fail anything important.
I agree with your stance on freebooting starplayers for critical matches babs but would go further than just upping the price to try and prevent it. I would ban star players use in the tournament totally (freebooting and otherwise), but making and exception for both goblins and halfings allowing both these teams to freeboot their respective stars. |
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