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Post subject: Pro a trait?
 Posted: Nov 25, 2003 - 05:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Posts: 2696
Location: Undisclosed
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So in the rules review, Pro has become a trait.
Can someone please explain to me why this has come about? Was Pro so over used/over-powered?
Also, when TBB discussed the ogre team, one of the points raised against limting the Ogres to ST only was that there wasn't enough choice to justify it. Well, now, with the removal of a General skill, they've narrowed down the potential development of quite a few players. For example, in theory, every Norse Lineman/Wight could have exactly the same skills, if they were unfortunate enough not to roll doubles/stats to a 7 skilll career. Do I really need 12 Kick norse linemen? |
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jmccubbin |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 25, 2003 - 05:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 152
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IMO. Pro gives a %50 chance re-roll for all rolls, so effectivly it's a Dodge, Catch, sure Hands, Pass skill rolled into one. Granted it's only %50 for each, but hey it's versitile.
For Undead style teams or low agility teams, its a wonderful skill.
I was planning on taking it on all my Skeleton players until they made it a trait.
As much as I hate to admit it, I think they did the right thing by making it a trait. |
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Officially 0-1-1 in NAF.
At least my team looked good.
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 25, 2003 - 07:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Can't say I've ever seen it on multiple players in a team, except for the COFAB vamps, and for that they've given up block, dodge, mighty blow etc.
Guess I just can't see the reason for it. |
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_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
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Xtreme |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 25, 2003 - 09:28 PM
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Da Boss
Joined: Mar 12, 2003
United States of America
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| In our league there were quite a few Big Guys who took it, for obvious reasons. I think the change was meant to effect Big Guys and especially Vamps. But I think the bigger point is that we need more skills. |
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jejaatin |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 26, 2003 - 01:29 AM
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Joined: May 05, 2003
Posts: 37
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I'm cool with pro being a trait, never had any use for BGs, but the change to PO was IMO not cool at all. I mean it kinda waters down the skill, it's not nearly as fun now as it used to be.
Quote: But I think the bigger point is that we need more skills.
Have to agree with that, definitely. |
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It's not how you play the Game, It's how the Game plays you.
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 26, 2003 - 05:13 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Location: Kent, UK
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I guess its to hurt Big Guys and Vampires.
So rather than stopping them using Leader/Trophy rerolls they decided on this change instead.
IMO its a bad choice. Quite a few player types (Wights, some linemen) are going to struggle for a 2nd/3rd skill choice now, unless they get a double. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Sputnik |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 26, 2003 - 05:39 AM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 512
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Quote: I guess its to hurt Big Guys and Vampires.
So rather than stopping them using Leader/Trophy rerolls they decided on this change instead.
IMO its a bad choice. Quite a few player types (Wights, some linemen) are going to struggle for a 2nd/3rd skill choice now, unless they get a double.
If your first statement is true, then IMO making pro a trait is not the most sensible decision. Vampires are not official yet, so why worry about OFAB that much? Or is Count Luthor soooo overpowered?  And with the leader/trophy rr one could have tweakened the big guys a bit without touching pro.
I have to admit, I don't have much experience with big guys + pro since block/PO was the more popular way to go in the recent past. However, I indeed liked my wights having pro. :lol:Good choice.
I think jump up was pretty popular as a skill, but since it has become a trait not many players get jump up any more. A double is worth quite a lot and other skill categories are too tempting. And I fear pro will join jump up in this respect. Seriously, a wight with a double won't get pro for sure! 
Sputnik |
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jmccubbin |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 26, 2003 - 07:21 AM
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Joined: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 152
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My whole point of taking pro was that I got limited access to free re-rolls for all actions without roling doubles. Now that I have to roll a doubles to get it, I will proably not take it. Although I must admit it is still versitile. With Pro, I would still get limited access to all tho other skills I would need a doubles to get.
Some teams don't have access to any agility. So pro has it's merits even as a trait. For elves/DE/WE Pro is almost useless.
Pro is still very useful for Khemri, Orc, Vamp, Chaos, Nurgle, and WA. For other teams, I can see why nobody would take it. The above teams don't have access to AGILITY without a doubles. Pro gives limited access to all Agility re-roll skills in one shot. |
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Officially 0-1-1 in NAF.
At least my team looked good.
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zeuzism |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 26, 2003 - 07:43 AM
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Joined: Oct 06, 2003
Posts: 42
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PO=Piling On?
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I agree with sputnik: if you roll a double you will probably pick dodge (Blodge/Dock!) or sidestep and on your second double (not going to happen most off the times) you might cosider pro. That's to bad, because I think they (I donno who is 'they') have nerfed the game enough by now.
Every single change (well almost) since the 3rd edition has favoured light armoured pancies with leather jumpsuits... Without being able to combine Mighty Blow, Razor Sharp Fangs, Claw and Dirty Player the game is far less fun IMO  . Fouling is far less powerfull since you get send off all the time and you dont have a big chance to really injure your oppenent... may be I should start another thread...
Well (I just continue): Frenzy nerfed...; Special Play Cards (to stop those awfully slippery Elves) nerfed away; using RR to break armour/injure nerfed; Mighty Blow nerfed; Dirty Player nerfed etc...
A lot of the fun in the game came from the aspect of growing nursing your players to big stars with the ever present risk of them being killed. Now instead of that they grow old... That's boring. I want to kill people! And yes I do play Warhammer as well
I think BB is not intended to be a nice smooth game where everything goes as aspected, it's the roughness that makes the fun. Compare it with a Van Gogh compared to a picture from a camera, Id prefer the Van Gogh.
Why doesn't the Rules Committee (?) forbid Blocking and Fouling and maybe Dwarfs/Undead/Chaos as well?
Ok I'm exagerating...
New thread: -> General -> Nerfing: not a good thing
Sanne |
Last edited by zeuzism on Nov 26, 2003 - 08:02 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 26, 2003 - 07:59 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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Most (all?) of the things you seem to hate so much about LRB are the things that most people love most about it. So much actually that most leagues already used them back in third ed. Not combining skills has been done by many since the early days of 3rd ed after JJ suggested it in a letter, and the same is true for Sigurd's, IGMEOY, no reroll on injury roll and in some cases on armour rolls as well. Those things were absolutely necessary to keep 3rd ed running smoothly.
You're pretty much alone in that line of thinking. Don't expect to ever see the game go back to the way it was in vanilla 3rd ed, because vanilla 3rd ed sucked and nobody played that. Everybody played modified 3rd ed with most or all of the above included in it. |
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zeuzism |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 26, 2003 - 08:04 AM
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Joined: Oct 06, 2003
Posts: 42
Status: Offline
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| I edited 4th into 3rd I was wrong about that tnx Zombie for understanding, and replying that way. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 26, 2003 - 08:21 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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| By that, do you mean that 3rd ed already favored elves too much and you'd prefer playing 2nd ed? Otherwise, you misunderstood me. In 3rd ed, people already played with Sigurd et al. |
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zeuzism |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 26, 2003 - 10:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 06, 2003
Posts: 42
Status: Offline
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ehh now I'm confused...
I thought 3rd ed. is BB with Death Zone, special play cards and all that stuff. I dont know what Sigurd is, I play for some time but I'm on this forum (or any BB forum) just for a month, so I donno all the terms you use.
4th edition was the edition where they said: can only use one skill in a player turn, wasn't it? 4th edition was really a horror edition IMO. LRB is quite ok, allthough I do not agree completely with all the changes since 3rd ed.
or maybe there are two 4th edition? I'm getting really confused by now...
Sanne |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 26, 2003 - 10:17 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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3rd ed didn't officially include Sigurd's (rolling a D6 after getting an injury) or any of the other rules you mention above. But Jervis in an article suggested all those changes (i think it was in 95), and since then, most leagues have been using them, even though they were not official until 4th ed.
Those changes to the rule are so sensible and essential really, that 3rd ed was unplayable without them. That's why anybody with an internet connection played with modified 3rd ed, not vanilla 3rd ed.
And that's also why those changes are still essential today. |
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zeuzism |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 26, 2003 - 10:43 AM
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Joined: Oct 06, 2003
Posts: 42
Status: Offline
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Thanks Zombie, now I understand.
Also I must admit that I agree with the "Sigurd" thing. It's senceless that you stand a better chance of killing someone then badly hurting. I had a player that killed the opposition on a 7+ during a foul.... that is bad! It's ok that they stopped that. But not all off the changes are as fair. And really, I must say that again: you can not win with a Dwarf team against a Wood Elf team if all of his players stay on the pitch, even just one wardancer can be a manice... Or you must be very lucky off course.
Sanne |
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