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daloonieshaman |
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Post subject: Bad form?
 Posted: Jan 27, 2008 - 10:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 28, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 883
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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| Is it bad form if you have control of the ball and there is NO way for the other team to stop you from scoring to continue to batter his players (you have already technically won) |
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Barrel05 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 27, 2008 - 11:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 28, 2007
Posts: 52
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| Hell no its a great way to increase your casualty count |
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 28, 2008 - 03:50 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
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There are two things that are related here. I'll call them clock management & stalling. Clock management is where, by controlling the turn you score in, you control you opponent's ability to respond. Normally this is when you wait till turn 8 before scoring to prevent your opponent from having a 2 turn drive to get one back.
Stalling is very similar, but generally the numbers remaining on the pitch are very uneven and the only reason for delaying the score is because its easier to take down the remaining opposition when they are outnumbered and another kick off means chances for KOs & subs to return to the field.
Many coaches feel these are perfectly valid tactics and should be used when appropriate. Others loath it and there have even been rules suggested to try and stop it happening (normally if you can score you must).
I feel that clock management is a crucial skill in BB. IMO coaches who want to prevent sensible clock management are daft. Dwarves and other slow teams often need good clock management to win games.
Stalling on the other hand I think is only really justified (when not combined with clock management) when you have a genuine concern over the number & quality of opponents returning to the pitch and think this will affect the result of the game.
Basically if you choose not to score because doing so would give your opponent a significant chance of affecting the outcome of the game it is fine IMO. However if doing so won't give your opponent that chance you should. At the end of the day this is a silly game of toy soldiers and we all play for fun. Grinding your opponent's nose into the ground when you are 3-0 up is generally not fun for them and you should give them a chance to enjoy the game more. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Cramy |
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Posted: Jan 28, 2008 - 08:03 AM
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Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Canada
Posts: 403
Location: Canada
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I really don't think that it's bad form. It's boring for both coaches, but as Ian said, that's how slow bashy teams can win games. A skilled-up Wood Elf or Skaven team can usually score in 2 turns fairly easily (and sometimes in 1 turn). Scoring quickly usually means that they'll score right back. A Wood Elf / Skaven coach should expect the slow team to manage the clock. That said, the Wood Elf / Skaven coach should develop his team to help counter slow team clock management ...
And as Ian said, some people get a bit upset when you don't play "nice" with their toy soldiers, for some reason. These people should probably play a different game IMO.
I for one love to play with an Elf team, or Skaven, against bashy teams. Extracting the ball from the bashy team and scoring during their offensive drive is always very satisfying. |
_________________
The Ottawa Gatineau Blood Bowl League, fine purveyors of Blood Bowl tournaments since 2007. Home to the Deathbowl, CCKO and Daggerbowl.
Cramy
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tenwit |
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Post subject: Re: Bad form?
Posted: Jan 28, 2008 - 01:59 PM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2007
Posts: 48
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daloonieshaman wrote: Is it bad form ... to continue to batter his players (you have already technically won)
Of course not. But it's also not risk-free. If you continue to batter the team when you're 2-2 and 1 square from the EZ and there's noone in front of you, you have to expect to roll triple skulls on some unimportant block, and then have that goblin TTMed onto your ball carrier, causing the ball to bounce onto his prone body (where he landed inside the EZ), thence into the crowd, at which point it'll be thrown diagonally 9 squares where the crowd gets its hands on it again. And knowing my (er.. I mean your) luck, they'll probably throw it straight into the hands of the orc blitzer who's just stood up after being stunned and is deep in your half, 15 squares from the nearest other player, and only 3 squares from your EZ.
Go on, try it. You'll see it happens 3 times out of 4.
Moral of the story: unless you're 4-1 up, expect things to go HORRIBLY wrong when you stall in order to cause casualties. (If you're stalling in order to win, like dwarves do, then you're probably all right.) |
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject: Re: Bad form?
Posted: Jan 28, 2008 - 02:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3954
Location: Canada
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tenwit wrote: daloonieshaman wrote: Is it bad form ... to continue to batter his players (you have already technically won)
Of course not. But it's also not risk-free. If you continue to batter the team when you're 2-2 and 1 square from the EZ and there's noone in front of you, you have to expect to roll triple skulls on some unimportant block, and then have that goblin TTMed onto your ball carrier, causing the ball to bounce onto his prone body (where he landed inside the EZ), thence into the crowd, at which point it'll be thrown diagonally 9 squares where the crowd gets its hands on it again. And knowing my (er.. I mean your) luck, they'll probably throw it straight into the hands of the orc blitzer who's just stood up after being stunned and is deep in your half, 15 squares from the nearest other player, and only 3 squares from your EZ.
Go on, try it. You'll see it happens 3 times out of 4.
Moral of the story: unless you're 4-1 up, expect things to go HORRIBLY wrong when you stall in order to cause casualties. (If you're stalling in order to win, like dwarves do, then you're probably all right.)
At the tournament I played in this weekend, I did exactly that, it was 1-1 at the end of the second half, and I was standing with my m ummy (who somehow ended up with the ball) by the endzone. On my turn eight, I scored, only leaving him one turn to score. Which, with high elves is impossible...... or so I thought.
Kick off for his turn is a riot, turns back the clock and then he manages to score in two turns, despite me knocking over the initial ball carrier, and putting three TZs on the ball.... it happens!
Point being - I should have cause more casualties! (not for lack of trying mind you) |
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#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject: RE: Re: Bad form?
Posted: Jan 28, 2008 - 10:14 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Location: Kent, UK
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| All the elf teams can score in one turn without needing a riot. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Cramy |
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Post subject: RE: Re: Bad form?
Posted: Jan 29, 2008 - 06:26 AM
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Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Canada
Posts: 403
Location: Canada
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Although the riot helps a lot  |
_________________
The Ottawa Gatineau Blood Bowl League, fine purveyors of Blood Bowl tournaments since 2007. Home to the Deathbowl, CCKO and Daggerbowl.
Cramy
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: Bad form?
Posted: Jan 29, 2008 - 06:48 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3954
Location: Canada
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Doubleskulls wrote: All the elf teams can score in one turn without needing a riot.
I know you cannot resist proving me wrong DS
But in this case there was not movement increases or sprint skills to aid him. Nor was there another lion warrior with frenzy to blitz his ball-carrying into the end-zone, or any manner of creative use of the right stuff skill.
So without the riot, I maintain, it would have been impossible. |
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#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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Cramy |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: Bad form?
Posted: Jan 29, 2008 - 10:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 17, 2006
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Location: Canada
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Actually Spazz, with MA of 8 it is possible. You need to line-up many pushes for it to work, but it is possible. The Specialist Games web site has an article on how to do it. You can do it even with Norse.
I need to refresh my memory, so I'll read it again ... I tried it with my Skaven team in Niagara, but it didn't work as I rolled a both down instead of a push. Dwarfrunner could have tried it against me last weekend, but he didn't (which I'm pretty happy about). It's not too hard to do with MA9.
Now I wonder, why the "heck" am I showing you how to do this?
http://www.specialist-games.com/bloodbowl/articles.asp |
_________________
The Ottawa Gatineau Blood Bowl League, fine purveyors of Blood Bowl tournaments since 2007. Home to the Deathbowl, CCKO and Daggerbowl.
Cramy
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: Bad form?
Posted: Jan 29, 2008 - 10:55 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3954
Location: Canada
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Shot down once again......
Why do I even bother posting! |
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#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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Clan_Skaven |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 29, 2008 - 11:26 AM
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Posts: 2604
Location: Niagara Falls ON, Canada
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Stalling or clock management is to slow bashy teams what one turn scorers is to to fast teams..... (neither is bad form)
My favourite defence vs stalling is fouling (even better with DP) , surround/issolate one of his players & foul him/her till it is no longer in play, the move on to another & repeat, (just ignore the stall..... (you will find your opponent probably scoring when you have thier star Wardancer, Bull Centaur, or Big Guy, or any other exspensive or high skilled player(s) eating boot, play after play......
Rod |
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"2006 SPIKE Champion!"
"Death-Bowl IV & V, Most Casualties!, Death-Bowl VI Best Team!"
"2008 Dagger Bowl Champion"
Host of the Warpstone Cup, Q'ermitt Bowl & the Hope Bowl
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Cramy |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 29, 2008 - 12:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Canada
Posts: 403
Location: Canada
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And keep a player in range of the ball carrier. If you don't, the other coach may bring his whole "bashy" team to counter the fouls. If you can't get out of the foul contest to go challenge the ball carrier, you may end-up on the losing end of the foul war. If you can lure him to join the foul war while you have players in range of the ball carrier, then hurray for you.
But yes, Clan-Skaven has it right. Hit and gang-foul. This has more effect in league play though. In resurrection tournaments, it has less effect as all your players come-back for the next game. In the end of the second half, it has no effect at all except that it brings some form of satisfaction to the fouling coach. |
_________________
The Ottawa Gatineau Blood Bowl League, fine purveyors of Blood Bowl tournaments since 2007. Home to the Deathbowl, CCKO and Daggerbowl.
Cramy
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Apocrypha |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 29, 2008 - 03:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 15, 2008
Port Hope Ontario
Posts: 101
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Clan-Skaven wrote: Stalling or clock management is to slow bashy teams what one turn scorers is to to fast teams..... (neither is bad form)
My favourite defence vs stalling is fouling (even better with DP) , surround/issolate one of his players & foul him/her till it is no longer in play, the move on to another & repeat, (just ignore the stall..... (you will find your opponent probably scoring when you have thier star Wardancer, Bull Centaur, or Big Guy, or any other exspensive or high skilled player(s) eating boot, play after play......
Rod
I agree with this here. I have had experience with stallers. Once I fouled and killed my opponent's ogre with a goblin. The last time a dwarf player lost two linemen when he stalled. He won 2 - 0 but he lost 2 lineman and gained a niggling slayer.
Good form or not - the dice can be fickle and you might end up losing more than you gain. |
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Clan_Skaven |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 30, 2008 - 12:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Posts: 2604
Location: Niagara Falls ON, Canada
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Yes causing casualties rock!
Take it from the Casualty champion from the last 2 Death-Bowls!!! (Death-Bowl IV & V)
Rod |
_________________
"2006 SPIKE Champion!"
"Death-Bowl IV & V, Most Casualties!, Death-Bowl VI Best Team!"
"2008 Dagger Bowl Champion"
Host of the Warpstone Cup, Q'ermitt Bowl & the Hope Bowl
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