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Clan_Skaven |
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Post subject: Warpstone Cup Divisions
 Posted: Feb 23, 2013 - 07:19 AM
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Posts: 2604
Location: Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Status: Offline
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Ok the 4 divisions of the Warpstone Cup are drawn completely randomly, but after seeing how unbalanced they were last year based on Coach win % I was toying with the idea of ranking the Divisions based on Coach Win % rather than Randomly.
Here are the rankings based on these tie breakers A) Coach Win % B) Total Games Won C) Total TD +/-
So this will not be totally accurate from last September as I'm using Coach rankings based on today not then, but this will still form a somewhat view of what I'm trying to show.
Ok last year 16 coaches showed up. In a ranked division set up your divisions would be set as follows
-------A--------B--------C--------D
-------1--------2---------3--------4
-------8--------7---------6--------5
-------9--------10--------11------12
-------16-------15--------14------13
Last year the divisions were as follows
---------A---------B--------C---------D
---------4---------2---------7--------1
---------8---------5---------12-------3
---------9---------10--------14-------6
---------11--------16--------15-------13
So last year in D Division 3 of the top 6 were in the same Division , & in C Diviosion 3 of the bottom 5 were in the same Division.
Personally I like randomness (since lets face it some of the best things in BB are from Randomness) , but I do see the merrits of the ranking system.
The Warpstone Cup is not a tournament I will play in so I leave the fate of the Division structure up to those that will/could play in it. |
_________________
"2006 SPIKE Champion!"
"Death-Bowl IV & V, Most Casualties!, Death-Bowl VI Best Team!"
"2008 Dagger Bowl Champion"
Host of the Warpstone Cup, Q'ermitt Bowl & the Hope Bowl
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natsirtdm |
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Post subject: RE: Warpstone Cup Divisions
Posted: Feb 23, 2013 - 09:05 AM
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Joined: Mar 14, 2010
Canada
Posts: 433
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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| I think it's best to leave it random. Where would you get win % from? Also then you are theoretically making it easier for the stronger players to progress, which doesn't seem fair. |
_________________
1st: Warpstone 2012, Brewhouse Bowl, Brewhouse Bowl III
Best Paint: Blingtoof 2012, ZB IX, Brewhaus Bowl II
Team Champs: ZB VIII, Lakeside Cup 2013, Amorical Cup 2017
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Clan_Skaven |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Warpstone Cup Divisions
Posted: Feb 23, 2013 - 09:37 AM
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Posts: 2604
Location: Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Status: Offline
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natsirtm wrote: I think it's best to leave it random. Where would you get win % from? Also then you are theoretically making it easier for the stronger players to progress, which doesn't seem fair.
good point,
The win % is from NAF itself, for example yours as of today is 45.71% with 37 wins and -19 +/- in TD's
those are the 3 tie breakers I used in formatting coach rankings
Win %
Number of Wins
TD +/-
Your point is noted, and thanks for your input. |
_________________
"2006 SPIKE Champion!"
"Death-Bowl IV & V, Most Casualties!, Death-Bowl VI Best Team!"
"2008 Dagger Bowl Champion"
Host of the Warpstone Cup, Q'ermitt Bowl & the Hope Bowl
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Stimme |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 23, 2013 - 10:43 AM
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Joined: Apr 19, 2011
Germany
Posts: 431
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
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I wouldn't make it too complicated, since the winning percentage is strongly dependent on the teams the coaches pick. If an 80% win coach decides to play halflings, he probably won't win the tournament.
If they are present, you could seed the last year(s) top 4 coaches. That would be relatively simple. |
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Clan_Skaven |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 23, 2013 - 10:46 AM
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Posts: 2604
Location: Niagara Falls ON, Canada
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Stimme wrote: I wouldn't make it too complicated, since the winning percentage is strongly dependent on the teams the coaches pick. If an 80% win coach decides to play halflings, he probably won't win the tournament.
If they are present, you could seed the last year(s) top 4 coaches. That would be relatively simple.
I understand what your saying, but it is not complicated at all rather simple actually. |
_________________
"2006 SPIKE Champion!"
"Death-Bowl IV & V, Most Casualties!, Death-Bowl VI Best Team!"
"2008 Dagger Bowl Champion"
Host of the Warpstone Cup, Q'ermitt Bowl & the Hope Bowl
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natsirtdm |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 23, 2013 - 03:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 14, 2010
Canada
Posts: 433
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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| Yea my point was, win % overall isn't necessarily a good indicator, even by team is tough because then you are penalizing players who bring races they are proficient with - for being proficient. I don't think you wanna influence the groups too much - honestly I think the reason D had so many well ranked coaches was we had 3 dwarf teams and dwarfs are a strong race to bring in this particular format. |
_________________
1st: Warpstone 2012, Brewhouse Bowl, Brewhouse Bowl III
Best Paint: Blingtoof 2012, ZB IX, Brewhaus Bowl II
Team Champs: ZB VIII, Lakeside Cup 2013, Amorical Cup 2017
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Clan_Skaven |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 23, 2013 - 03:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Posts: 2604
Location: Niagara Falls ON, Canada
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natsirtm wrote: Yea my point was, win % overall isn't necessarily a good indicator, even by team is tough because then you are penalizing players who bring races they are proficient with - for being proficient. I don't think you wanna influence the groups too much - honestly I think the reason D had so many well ranked coaches was we had 3 dwarf teams and dwarfs are a strong race to bring in this particular format.
The 3 Dwarf teams was B Division 
But Your point is well put. |
_________________
"2006 SPIKE Champion!"
"Death-Bowl IV & V, Most Casualties!, Death-Bowl VI Best Team!"
"2008 Dagger Bowl Champion"
Host of the Warpstone Cup, Q'ermitt Bowl & the Hope Bowl
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Daggers |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 23, 2013 - 10:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 07, 2006
Canada
Posts: 1618
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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Yeah, I think leaving it random is he best. Makes it interesting, just like world up for soccer, luck of the draw to see you have to play.
But I think the whole winning % thought process has too many wholes too make it fair/balanced for all coaches. |
_________________
Stunty Champion: Golden Sweetbun I-V , Canadian Open 2014-2015, Brewhouse Bowl 2015 (all with the EPIC IRON CHEFS)
Check out NAFCANADA.ca for the latest tournaments in Canada.
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Clan_Skaven |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2013 - 07:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Posts: 2604
Location: Niagara Falls ON, Canada
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Dwarfrunner wrote: Yeah, I think leaving it random is he best. Makes it interesting, just like world up for soccer, luck of the draw to see you have to play.
But I think the whole winning % thought process has too many wholes too make it fair/balanced for all coaches.
Yup I do agree. I myself prefer randomized too. I just was concerned when I noticed the 2 polar opposites in 2 of last years divisions, & thought I'd let everyone vote on it.
So far the results are as I expected. |
_________________
"2006 SPIKE Champion!"
"Death-Bowl IV & V, Most Casualties!, Death-Bowl VI Best Team!"
"2008 Dagger Bowl Champion"
Host of the Warpstone Cup, Q'ermitt Bowl & the Hope Bowl
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Daggers |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2013 - 05:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 07, 2006
Canada
Posts: 1618
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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| If you want to ensure that a "better" coach is in each division, you could simply have the past four champions of Warpsone be the first four teams sorted, then randomize the remainder of the coaches. That way you are guaranteeing former champions will not meet each other until the playoffs at least, and also gives a little bit of prestige to the champions, separating hem from the regular coaches. |
_________________
Stunty Champion: Golden Sweetbun I-V , Canadian Open 2014-2015, Brewhouse Bowl 2015 (all with the EPIC IRON CHEFS)
Check out NAFCANADA.ca for the latest tournaments in Canada.
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Clan_Skaven |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2013 - 09:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Posts: 2604
Location: Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Status: Offline
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Dwarfrunner wrote: If you want to ensure that a "better" coach is in each division, you could simply have the past four champions of Warpsone be the first four teams sorted, then randomize the remainder of the coaches. That way you are guaranteeing former champions will not meet each other until the playoffs at least, and also gives a little bit of prestige to the champions, separating hem from the regular coaches.
Not a bad idea,...
Lets see
Warpstone Cup I Champion Joe Byers
Warpstone Cup II Champion Greg Shelton
Warpstone Cup III Champion Craig Thompson-Wood
Warpstone Cup IV Champion Greg Shelton/Rod Davidson
Warpstone Cup V Champion Alex Weiss
Warpstone Cup VI Champion Tristan McKerracher
Ok well that said that last 4 Champions would be Tristan , Alex , Greg & Myself  & Spazz |
_________________
"2006 SPIKE Champion!"
"Death-Bowl IV & V, Most Casualties!, Death-Bowl VI Best Team!"
"2008 Dagger Bowl Champion"
Host of the Warpstone Cup, Q'ermitt Bowl & the Hope Bowl
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Clan_Skaven |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2013 - 09:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Posts: 2604
Location: Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Status: Offline
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But Greg and I are both odd man out so if neither of us play then the 4th man becomes Joe , & well thats not going to happen cause it is a well known fact the distance from Ottawa to Niagara is farther than the distance from Niagara to Ottawa!  |
_________________
"2006 SPIKE Champion!"
"Death-Bowl IV & V, Most Casualties!, Death-Bowl VI Best Team!"
"2008 Dagger Bowl Champion"
Host of the Warpstone Cup, Q'ermitt Bowl & the Hope Bowl
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Daggers |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 25, 2013 - 04:48 AM
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Joined: Dec 07, 2006
Canada
Posts: 1618
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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| You kidding, the distance from Joes house to mine is to far for him. If there are only three, or even two or one, just rank them first and then do the rest. |
_________________
Stunty Champion: Golden Sweetbun I-V , Canadian Open 2014-2015, Brewhouse Bowl 2015 (all with the EPIC IRON CHEFS)
Check out NAFCANADA.ca for the latest tournaments in Canada.
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Lizardcore |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 26, 2013 - 05:50 AM
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Joined: Apr 07, 2004
Posts: 513
Status: Offline
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PEter meers should be in a division on its own. This guy is dangerous  |
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delevus |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 26, 2013 - 06:39 AM
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Joined: May 20, 2007
Posts: 57
Status: Offline
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| I'm fine with random. If a division gets loaded then they will just have to fight that much harder. Hopefully I can make it again this year. |
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