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Lycos |
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Post subject: NAF research in to running a League Rankings system
 Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 06:40 AM
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Former President
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 1532
Location: Undisclosed
Status: Offline
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Members,
The committee have decided to instigate research in to a new potential project. We have asked General_Jason from Canada to chair a project to look at a Global League rankings system alongside the NAF Tournament ranking system.
It is important that we word this carefully. We have said research because at this stage there are so many factors that could make this project difficult that until we research it properly, we cannot stipulate it is something that will be done in the future, or at least, how we will deliver it.
It would be fair to say there are far more league games played than tournament games in our membership database now and there are many leagues around the world running house rules. It is for these and plenty of other reasons that we have to take a good look at all the difficulties involved such as volume of data, data integrity and such like.
General_Jason will be looking to recruit leagues and commissioners for this project both proactively and reactively. We would like League Commissioners (LC’s) to volunteer information and data but please work with the subcommittee as there will be a lot of things the team need to tackle.
Funds will be made available for expenses on this project, almost certainly we will need a new server as the sheer volume of games in CRP leagues will dwarf what the tournament system currently stores.
General_Jason will be building a team up and that team, via Craig, will report back in to the league committee.
Dave/Lycos
NAF President |
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sann0638 |
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Post subject: RE: NAF research in to running a League Rankings system
Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 12:41 PM
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President
Joined: Jul 03, 2006
England
Posts: 1114
Location: England
Status: Offline
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| Is Craig General Jason? |
_________________
NAF President 2016-17
Founder of SAWBBL, Wiltshire's BB League @ sawbbl.co.uk
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Lycos |
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Post subject: RE: NAF research in to running a League Rankings system
Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 01:52 PM
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Former President
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 1532
Location: Undisclosed
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| Yes he is. probably easier to keep it to NAF names I guess. |
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Post subject: RE: NAF research in to running a League Rankings system
Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 02:05 PM
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Joined: May 09, 2008
Canada
Posts: 207
Location: Canada
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| You mention his name in the last line of this post right after the word "via". |
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Daggers |
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Post subject: RE: NAF research in to running a League Rankings system
Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 02:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 07, 2006
Canada
Posts: 1618
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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Cool, I will always volunteer my league for any rank testing. We only have 16 coaches right now, but they are all active, and all play the entire season.
Sounds like an awesomely massive but interesting project to undertake. |
_________________
Stunty Champion: Golden Sweetbun I-V , Canadian Open 2014-2015, Brewhouse Bowl 2015 (all with the EPIC IRON CHEFS)
Check out NAFCANADA.ca for the latest tournaments in Canada.
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Polly |
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Post subject: RE: NAF research in to running a League Rankings system
Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 02:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 09, 2013
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| Maybe, is it possible to use international golf ranking system to manage a World Ranking? |
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Kilowoggy |
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Post subject: RE: NAF research in to running a League Rankings system
Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 02:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 09, 2007
United States of America
Posts: 363
Location: United States of America
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I like the idea of league support and promotion, but don't see the need or the feasibility of a ranking system.
I like the initiative but think it's misguided. Rankings between disparate league house rules will mean nothing, but promotion of home and store leagues would help grow the game immensely. |
_________________
Co-Host of BOTH DOWN:The #1 Blood Bowl Podcast... that you can find at Both Down!
Or on Twitter @BothDown
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natsirtdm |
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Post subject: Re: RE: NAF research in to running a League Rankings system
Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 02:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 14, 2010
Canada
Posts: 433
Location: Canada
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Kilowog1 wrote: I like the idea of league support and promotion, but don't see the need or the feasibility of a ranking system.
I like the initiative but think it's misguided. Rankings between disparate league house rules will mean nothing, but promotion of home and store leagues would help grow the game immensely.
I have to agree, I feel that leagues are too varied to develop a ranking system that will work. Or you will end up denying entry because a league doesn't fit the criteria. |
_________________
1st: Warpstone 2012, Brewhouse Bowl, Brewhouse Bowl III
Best Paint: Blingtoof 2012, ZB IX, Brewhaus Bowl II
Team Champs: ZB VIII, Lakeside Cup 2013, Amorical Cup 2017
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sann0638 |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: NAF research in to running a League Rankings sys
Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 02:51 PM
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President
Joined: Jul 03, 2006
England
Posts: 1114
Location: England
Status: Offline
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| My focus would be on a database of all leagues, getting this working before doing anything more complicated. |
_________________
NAF President 2016-17
Founder of SAWBBL, Wiltshire's BB League @ sawbbl.co.uk
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mrrip1979 |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: NAF research in to running a League Rankings sys
Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 04:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 15, 2013
Houston
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Location: Houston
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| I'll volunteer the SWHBBL (Southwest Houston Blood Bowl League) to contribute data, we are entering our 5th season with 6-10 coaches playing per season. |
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AngusDad |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: NAF research in to running a League Rankings sys
Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 05:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 13, 2011
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Posts: 269
Location: Undisclosed
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I'm a specialist researcher and lecturer in research ethics as well as a chairman of a research ethics committee so if you want my input just ask. Happy to volunteer my time.
Paddy |
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WIldManTX |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: NAF research in to running a League Rankings sys
Posted: Sep 15, 2013 - 07:34 PM
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Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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generaljason |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 17, 2013 - 11:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 04, 2009
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Posts: 439
Location: British Columbia, Canada
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Kilowog1 wrote: I like the idea of league support and promotion, but don't see the need or the feasibility of a ranking system.
I like the initiative but think it's misguided. Rankings between disparate league house rules will mean nothing, but promotion of home and store leagues would help grow the game immensely.
To be fair the same can be said about comparing tournaments. One could easily say "I like the initiative but think it's misguided. Rankings between disparate tournament house rules will mean nothing." We currently sort variant rankings into what some call 'core' rankings. And if a tournament wishes to create their own star player for use at their tournament, those rankings currently sit side by side with ones that don't.
natsirtm wrote:
I have to agree, I feel that leagues are too varied to develop a ranking system that will work. Or you will end up denying entry because a league doesn't fit the criteria.
And same. I could say "I feel that tournaments are too varied to develop a ranking system that will work. Or you will end up denying entry because a tournament doesn't fit the criteria." I mean if I had to site every house rule that I've seen on this page I'd be working in 24 shifts: http://member.thenaf.net/index.php?module=NAF&type=tournaments&ordercolumn=tournamentstartdate&showall=1
I have no interest at all in debating this in this thread as I don't think it's a point I really need to make. People have been complaining about variant rankings being mixed in with regular tournament rankings for years now for the very thing you believe league rankings will be inevitably guilty of. It's the call to separate these rankings precisely because the rules of each game are too varied. Tournament rankings are already guilty of that.
I'm not condemning Tournaments by the way. I love playing in the tournaments I get a chance to attend, but I in no way shape or form believe that there is such a uniformity between all of them that somehow the rankings are completely pure. Nor do I care. Hindsight I think it would be proper to separate the rankings in variant games and regular tournament bowl, but whatever. Once you've added resurrection to your tournament you've already entered the world of house rules.
NAF was a new organization at the time, and in retrospect they would have separated variant games into their own ranking system had it occurred to them. No blame being put on anyone of course, but again they were new and more concerned about being inclusive as opposed to the purity of stats.
Whereas League Rankings have the advantage of hindsight and can correct the errors in data sort that Tournament Rankings didn't. It's a very exiting prospect for all NAF members who play in progressive League Tournaments.
With regards to being inclusive: Please understand, and this is a message to all, my position on this has softened considerably since we held the NAF Tournament Director elections. It is my goal to be as inclusive as possible while at the same time sorting Leagues of different categories, much like core and variant games.
The only criteria that would be minimum off the top of my head would be:
01. All the members of your league need to be NAF members.
02. 6 player minimum.
03. LRB 5/6
04. An online presence like OBBLM or Aros.
How you conduct your league would determine what category your league would be sorted into - not eligibility. And this would be done purely for integrity of the stats of each of those divisions.
sann0638 wrote: My focus would be on a database of all leagues, getting this working before doing anything more complicated.
That is the focus. It's how we go about that and merge or create a global database that is primary. The first task is determine how many leagues fit the above criteria. Examples:
http://thunderbowl.ca/tbsn/
http://www.everett-bbl.org/obblm/
http://www.ratcityrumble.com/rcbbl/index.php
http://spew.bloodbowlleague.com/
http://manager.thehobble.com/
http://www.arosbb.dk/
I want to know about all of them as we need to know just how many games and leagues that fit that criteria are out there. This will determine how much space a project like this will take. Whether we wish to create a system of CR for League is a whole other discussion right now. Primary now is identifying all the NAF membered Leagues out there.
As for categories of Leagues are concerned, they would be sorted to this standard:
Gold: No house rules. Scheduled league matches.
Silver: No house rules. Open league matches.
Bronze: House rules. Scheduled or open league matches.
Regarding Bronze: Martin's race revisions league would be in this category as it's outside the LRB 5/6. But I'd love to have a separate category for stats such as these to see what impact his Tier One revisions have in the long run and a larger scope. Everything else where there is a house-ruled star, or draft rules, or anything that affects game play that requires errata not written in those pages would be classified as Bronze.
What we need right now:
- Commissioners: to come out and let us know about your leagues. Show me your links to your database so I can add this to the list. Brits, Scots, Welsh, Irish, Spaniards, Frenchmen, Aussies, Kiwis, Germans, Austrians, Swiss, Italians, Swedes, Danes, Belgians, Norwegians, everyone else and all my North Americans - we NEED to know about you! It's important for us to understand the scope of data we wish to include.
- Committee Members: I'm looking for volunteers from different regions of the globe to be involved in private discussions. Guys that want to add their 2 cents into how we finally develop this. I'd say the minimum requirement for this is that you'd need to be your League's Commissioner. This will be an arbitrary selection as I can only pick so many from each region to represent, but help mould the final draft of how this will be presented.
Please note: I am not a guy who takes the internet that seriously, meaning I don't hold long term grudges with anybody. I've been known to drive off the road a few times with members in the past but it's their opinions that I usually respect the most. I'm not looking for a bunch of yes-men. I'm looking for guys who have valid ideas and see things that I might not.
The long term goal:
- After everything is set up, and we have one database for league to rule them all, we are in a position to finally start hosting Probowls, or inter-league tournaments if you like. All progression rules would be active, all results are final. And tournaments such as these will be to the whim of the LTO that runs them, such as TV150-175 only, or over TV176-199 only, or only Gold teams, or whatever. But an evolution of 1-day or 2-day events as we know them.
This is a very exiting task for NAF and all it's members. It's something that we in the Pacific North West have been dying to see for years and so I'm happy that this is finally getting into the preliminary stages of fruition. League Rankings has the potential of being huge. All league stats from around the globe in one central database?? Awesome.
I'd like to thank the NAF for finally taking the position to include League Rankings and opening up their resources to do it. I'm looking forward to see the final result!
I thank Dave (Lycos) and all the rest of the NAF committee for unanimously choosing me for this position. As we are just in the formula stage there was no sense in having an election for League Director. Once this project emerges from the formula stage and comes to fruition and is running all by itself we can host elections.
Once Dave gives me admin access I'll set up a separate forum for discussion and where people can lists their leagues. All for now. 
Best regards,
Craig. |
Last edited by generaljason on Sep 17, 2013 - 08:14 PM; edited 2 times in total
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Grumbledook |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 17, 2013 - 12:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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| Good Luck Craig! |
_________________
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Jon
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blammaham |
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Posted: Sep 17, 2013 - 02:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 20, 2009
Canada
Posts: 202
Location: Canada
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