| Author |
Message |
Ratin_Mutants |
|
Post subject: BBRR next time
 Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 12:48 AM
|
|
Joined: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 57
Status: Offline
|
|
What are the news about the next rule revision?
I´ve seen that some would like to have it as a skill, and I have a few objections about that.
Big guys and other St 5 Players would gain acces to Jump Up
What could be done to make it worth a Trait is the fact that you would not have to activate the player to get him back on his feet.
Extra arm, is there a reason why this does not count to intercept the ball.... I know that an interception is not the same as a catch.... but the difference is not that big...
Ok it should be easier to catch a ball if you have 3 arms, never tried it mysefl since i only have 2, but the interception shoul also be that easy, since one of the arms would be able to hold down an opponent, or use his as a ladder.
So make it count for interception also would only be fair (I know that word and bb should not be used together...but)
Apo I really do not like the idear of the poor doctor walk out on the field.... to rescue a team mate in the middle of the fight....
Couldn´t it be made so that the injured players are being carried out to him by some kind of magic, and that he takes care of them in the dugout?
Leap... Damn i hate playing against elves with that skill... but i love it when i use it.... Isn´t it a little to nice? When you use it as an attack, there is not really a way to protect the ball holder against it.
Would it be more fair if the same modifiers that counts for dodge would be give to a leap, so when leaping over a player, it is the same as now, but leaping in the middle of a pack of enemies to land in their middle would be a little more difficult?
I still hate Wild Animal since it is a skill that can force an turnover, by sacrificing a player and forget the ball. Make it work as a really stupid or something.
Should the Apo have the chance to get SPPs? One for saving a player from a Badly hurt, 2 from a SI, and 3 for the impossible.... bringing back a player from the dead? Then at the same rate as players get the possibility to first heal an action more for each "level"
I love the secret weapon part that you can buy a weapon to your players, however i still fell that it should be reduced to ONE weapon pr team, (exception gobos of course)
Racial wizards seems great make them officiel, as well as some of the stadium improvments that I have seen being used.
Make the Starplayers a little bit more fair, some teams have the benefit of a LARGE amout of them, while others do not have ONE! Which is a main reason that some players never use Starplayers
Bring Back the Magic helmet! |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
 |
|
Indigo |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 03:15 AM
|
|
Da Warboss
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
Posts: 2168
Location: England
Status: Offline
|
|
I don't like the idea of giving BG jump up, it seems like it's making them tougher for the sake of it. Anyway, it's an AG trait which shouldn't be given to "non-Agile" players lightly.
And although magic helmet was nice, IMO it's probably a little too powerful if permanent, although a +1 AV for one game would be OK! |
_________________
NAF #60
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Doubleskulls |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 03:16 AM
|
|
Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
Status: Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tutenkharnage |
|
|
Post subject: Re: BBRR next time
Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 06:36 AM
|
|
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 620
Status: Offline
|
|
To tackle some issues in order, here's a laundry list of responses. Keep in mind that these are the opinion of one member only.
News: There's no news yet. We're relatively quiet over the summer, with the occasional flare-up between members over some hotly debated topic of interest.
Jump Up: It won't become a skill. Standing up "for free" violates other tenets of the game, so it probably won't go that way, either.
Extra Arms: It doesn't count to intercept because that's what Very Long Legs does! (What's that, you say? You thought VLL existed only to give one-turn scorers to Skaven? Yes, it does seem that way. Shame, too.)
Apothecary: My league mandates that all healed players return to the Dugout. This seems to be somewhat popular in certain circles. Those who object to this change cite the inability to heal a stunned player in a surprise move, or something equally unlikely. I've seen this done 3 times in over 750 games. It's not an issue.
Leap: If tackle zones modified the roll, the Cage formation would be unbreakable. The way to protect the ball holder is to give him Sure Hands and surround him with a Guard or two. The limitation on Leap is that you can't leap back out, which has knocked it down a peg or two compared to the vanilla 3E version of the rule.
Wild Animal: This could change, although I've read fewer complaints about it as time has passed.
Apothecary levels: Not a chance, sorry 
Secret Weapons: These are still far from official. I'd expect some changes, although I can't say for certain what they might be.
Racial Wizards: They'll be official at some point in some similar format, assuming you mean the Runesmith and Master Chef from Blood Bowl Magazine. If you mean the Compendium monstrosities, abandon all hope.
Stadium Improvements: House rules only.
Star Players: I'd like to see some new players added. Zara the Slayer is coming out soon. Some others might be in the pipeline, but I don't know that for certain.
Magic Helmet: Not happening, but if you want to use it locally as a house rule, I suggest a price of 50,000 gold pieces.
Finally, I can assure you that the Hot List on Tom's web site is not the agenda for the Rules Committee. We review the Hot List for obvious holes in the rules, and it's a good sounding board for letting us know what you (yes, YOU) would like us to address. It's a valuable resource, but we have meta-game concerns that trump much of the more "rules-y" issues that have dominated the Hot List over the last 2 years. (That said, it's an excellent resource, and I commend Tom for the thankless job of compiling it.)
Cheers!
-Chet |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
jmccubbin |
|
|
Post subject: Re: BBRR next time
Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 08:12 AM
|
|
Joined: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 152
Status: Offline
|
|
Tutenkharnage wrote: Wild Animal: This could change, although I've read fewer complaints about it as time has passed.
My only real complaint is the No-assists AND must go first. What acutally makes more sense to me is Must go first, but may be assisted provided the assister is not adjancent to the wild animal. My thought is if I am not next to the Rat Ogre how can his wildness stop me from hitting a guy in the back?
R=Rat oger
O=Oger
L=Line Rat
___
LOR
___ would allow the Line rat to assist since the Rat Ogre's wildness is too far away to scare the line rat.
___
_OL
_R_ Would not be able to assist as the RO wildness scares the heck out of the line rat.
Option 2 is to remove the must go first restriction so that allies can move in to tak out opposing tackle zones. (I don't think this makes sense, but it does help easy the wildanimal negative)
As far as mutations changeing? Keep em as they are and don't let spikes go out as a non-mutation.
There is my 2 cents.
James |
_________________
Officially 0-1-1 in NAF.
At least my team looked good.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
aerofool |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 08:15 AM
|
|
Joined: Mar 24, 2003
United States
Posts: 273
Location: USA
Status: Offline
|
|
| I'm fairly satisfied with the current list of things to be discussed this fall. The only thing I ask is to keep Ogres as fieldable Norse roster. |
_________________
Scott
Editor-In-Chief
Triple POW! Magazine
triplepow.com
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Indigo |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 08:30 AM
|
|
Da Warboss
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
Posts: 2168
Location: England
Status: Offline
|
|
| I think dwarves should lose their Ogre, but wouldn't be THAT bothered if they didn't |
_________________
NAF #60
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
skummy |
|
|
Post subject: Re: BBRR next time
Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 09:04 AM
|
|
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 506
Status: Offline
|
|
Thanks for the quick overview, Chet. I like the direction Blood Bowl has gone, and from the above it looks even better. One thing I wonder about is your position on Piling On?
I'm also a believer that WA is too restrictive a negatrait. Milo is playtesting it now, but he's said that there are frequent situations in which he leaves his RO off the pitch because he thinks it will hurt his team on the field. To me, leaving your most expensive player off the field is an indication that they've been downgraded too far.
Thanks again for the review, though. |
_________________
The only thing to do with good advice is pass it on. It is never any use to oneself.
-Oscar Wilde
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
GalakStarscraper |
|
|
Post subject: Re: BBRR next time
Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 09:09 AM
|
|
Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
|
|
Tutenkharnage wrote: Finally, I can assure you that the Hot List on Tom's web site is not the agenda for the Rules Committee. We review the Hot List for obvious holes in the rules, and it's a good sounding board for letting us know what you (yes, YOU) would like us to address. It's a valuable resource, but we have meta-game concerns that trump much of the more "rules-y" issues that have dominated the Hot List over the last 2 years. (That said, it's an excellent resource, and I commend Tom for the thankless job of compiling it.)
-Chet
Thanks Chet ... however I really hope you guys seriously consider the "Cleaning up the text of the LRB section" ... that section is one that I hope every item will get into the book as it would solve soooooo many rules confusion issues.
The FAQ are the normal FAQ that needs to be addressed as they've foiled the minds of combined community online to come to an agreed answer.
The rest as always is a collection of the best ideas and suggestions for you and other 6 to bounce off your noggins.
Glad to do the list ... makes sure things don't get forgotten.
Galak |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
jmccubbin |
|
|
Post subject: Re: BBRR next time
Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 09:59 AM
|
|
Joined: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 152
Status: Offline
|
|
skummy wrote: I'm also a believer that WA is too restrictive a negatrait. Milo is playtesting it now, but he's said that there are frequent situations in which he leaves his RO off the pitch because he thinks it will hurt his team on the field. To me, leaving your most expensive player off the field is an indication that they've been downgraded too far.
I am still debating on taking the RO for Gencon or not. I find I use him as a safty away from the line he does alrigjht, however that means he does nothing but sit there for 80% of the game. Is that 20% worth it or not? I am not sure.
On the other side, WA Big guys also have access to mutations. Whenever I get a mutation for a RO it more than makes up for that negative WA. RSC just cleans up the field.
James |
_________________
Officially 0-1-1 in NAF.
At least my team looked good.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Tutenkharnage |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 11:19 AM
|
|
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 620
Status: Offline
|
|
Tom,
The rules questions are the best part. Mind you, I was miffed when I paged through the rulebook and saw the Blizzard restriction in the HMP. It just stuck out like a sore thumb. This is the sort of thing I'd like to avoid in the future, although several of the suggestions on this year's list are very good.
Other notes...
Wild Animal: We play it differently here. The WA has to take an action first, but can neither lend nor receive assists. He's essentially a hole in space with a tackle zone, always on his own but incapable of being played by the other team in lieu of the ball. Works for us - the Skaven team has one, he causes occasional turnovers because he's a Big Guy. Nothing special.
Piling On: I think the beardiest players grab the skill first, but I don't think there's anything truly broken about it from a design POV. That said, we play it differently here. You can use it after the AV roll to force an AV re-roll with ST added, but you are at risk of ejection. (You go prone, of course.) I've also heard of leagues that allow it as a straight AV re-roll in exchange for going prone. Either way works for me. The first is more realistic, the second is more straightforward.
Ogres: Yes for Norse, no for Dwarves. Don't ask me how that got in there, I claim ignorance 
-Chet |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
GalakStarscraper |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 11:56 AM
|
|
Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
|
|
Tutenkharnage wrote: Tom,
The rules questions are the best part. Mind you, I was miffed when I paged through the rulebook and saw the Blizzard restriction in the HMP. It just stuck out like a sore thumb. This is the sort of thing I'd like to avoid in the future.
Okay this one is NOT my fault ... this one happened because ANDY kept CHANGING the rules without waiting for a BBRC review.
The Hot List is created as good questions are asked throughout the year.
So with this one ... I'll show you what happened, because I keep copies of everything related to BB:
LRB 1.1
Code: Hail Mary Pass (Passing Skill)
The player may throw the ball to any square on the playing field,
no matter what the range; the range ruler is not used. On a roll
of 1 the player fumbles the throw, and the ball will scatter once
from the thrower’s square. On a roll of 2-6 the player may make
the pass. The Hail Mary pass may not be intercepted, but it is
never accurate – the ball automatically misses and scatters
three squares. Note that if you are lucky the ball will scatter
back into the target square! Also note that this skill is very useful
when combined with the Diving Catch skill.
LRB 1.2
Code: Hail Mary Pass (Passing Skill)
The player may throw the ball to any square on the playing field,
no matter what the range; the range ruler is not used. On a roll
of 1 the player fumbles the throw, and the ball will scatter once
from the thrower’s square. On a roll of 2-6 the player may make
the pass. The Hail Mary pass may not be intercepted, but it is
never accurate – the ball automatically misses and scatters
three squares. Note that if you are lucky the ball will scatter
back into the target square! Also note that this skill is very useful
when combined with the Diving Catch skill. This skill may not be
used in a blizzard.
So if you were miffed that I didn't know Andy had pulled another of his LRB non-rules review changes, image how miffed I was that Andy kept doing this to me and other BB commishes without EVER telling us EVEN ONCE what those new changes were as each new 1.x version came out.
I've been VERY happy that the LRB has not had a 2.x version this year ... and hope that stays that way in the future.
You cannot ding me Chet for Andy's wild editing pen between the 2001 and 2002 Review. That was a legit question when it was asked based on the LRB 1.0 and 1.1 and Andy never mentioned that he had changed the HMP rules on us midyear.
Sorry ... since Chet brought this one up, I just wanted to be clear where the fault was on his being miffed last year. Look internal to the RC, my friend, for that blame.
Galak |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Tutenkharnage |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 01:15 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 620
Status: Offline
|
|
I mean I think it's the wrong ruling. I also think it's the sort of nitpicky question that goes better unasked. Handle it as you would in your own league. The rulebook can't possibly handle all the interactions. The odds of this mattering in a tourney do not outweigh the need to keep the rulebook as clutter-free as possible, IMO.
It sticks out like a sore thumb precisely because it interrupts a nice skill description for a near-useless intersection that doesn't need a crystal clear answer, IMO. Not when the price is writing the Weather table into the HMP description, anyway.
-Chet |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
GalakStarscraper |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 01:25 PM
|
|
Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
|
|
I understand your position ... just don't agree that some questions should not be asked and if the verdict isn't clear be cleaned up.
Galak |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
skummy |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 01:52 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 506
Status: Offline
|
|
So what happens when a troll eats a goblin with a running chainsaw?
If my team has the Chaos Cup trophy, and both teams get the "Pick the weather" handicap, what happens?
African or European? |
_________________
The only thing to do with good advice is pass it on. It is never any use to oneself.
-Oscar Wilde
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
