NAF World Headquarters

North America - Chaos Cup 2005 - Chicago Nov. 5/6

GalakStarscraper - Aug 24, 2005 - 06:50 PM
Post subject: Chaos Cup 2005 - Chicago Nov. 5/6

The website has all the information.

This year is a big deal guys. We convinced them that if they went to a 2 day tournament and offered 5 games they would get more players.

So I'm hoping for a turnout large enough to prove that the Chaos Cup deserves GW's effort and that it can be a 2 day event.

http://www.thechaoscup.com has all the information on the tournament

Could someone please make this sticky and de-sticky the GenCon one ... thanks.

Galak

Valen - Aug 25, 2005 - 06:07 AM
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As stated on TBB I will be there, I am still looking for a roomate for the weekend aswell. Any takers?

Clan_Skaven - Aug 25, 2005 - 06:17 AM
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I'd love to, but no promises.

(I'll chat it up with my Niagara Clan/TBBF see if anyone will be attending...)

Rod.

Spazzfist - Aug 25, 2005 - 09:16 AM
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I would like to be able to think that I can make it. (It would give me another chance to show up Clan Skaven!)

Valen - Aug 25, 2005 - 09:29 AM
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Cool another two guys I have wanted too meet, looking forward to this, must buy ticket

Spazzfist - Aug 25, 2005 - 10:44 AM
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Will the Chaos cup be using the mutation rule that were used in the Death Cup and the Philly Phrakus which allows Chaos (and Nurgle) teams to take mutations as regular skills?

Please say yes!

Spazz

avatar666 - Aug 25, 2005 - 08:16 PM
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Quote:

This year is a big deal guys. We convinced them that if they went to a 2 day tournament and offered 5 games they would get more players.

That would rock! I would think that if GW put something in the US version of White Dwarf magazine and on the GW website that maybe the good word would spread faster..... but that would be too easy Rolling Eyes

I already pre-registered and looking forward to the 2 day 5 game format. Not to get off topic, but I really hope that the feedback from Gencon as far as rating of sportsmanship will be used in this event (the 1 to 3 with only 1 high ranking).

Also, the Chaos Cup coin looks awesome!

KarlLagerbottom - Aug 25, 2005 - 09:13 PM
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JayLazer and myself had our Tourney plugged in White Dwarf...I can't see why they wouldn't include a blurb about their own major. You just can't assume that they would do this on their own...Blood Bowl not being their top priority and all.

I'm not sure when the date of the Chaos Cup is taking place, but if you have 6 weeks to 2 months left, they would probably put something in.

Galak...OMM...Maybe this might be worth dropping a line to Jervis about.

-RobO

GalakStarscraper - Aug 26, 2005 - 11:22 AM
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Posted what I'm 98% are the final rules and schedule for the tournament.

http://www.thechaoscup.com

Galak

Spazzfist - Aug 26, 2005 - 11:30 AM
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Galak,

Good to see that you have included the rules for Chaos mutations as normal skills. If I make it then I will DEFINITELY be bringing my Rotters!

Just a note - Gken made mention that in the other tourneys, claw was not allowed to be given to Big Guys, you may want to make note of that in the rules.

Hope to see you there!

Spazz

jaylazer - Aug 26, 2005 - 12:55 PM
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Hey Tom. Found a typo in the sportsmanship section that could be confusing.

Quote:

You do not have to award any 3 rating if you do not feel any players desire it and likewise you may award more than one 3 rating if you had more than one poor sportsman

The first "3" should be "1".

GalakStarscraper - Aug 26, 2005 - 02:05 PM
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jaylazer wrote:

Hey Tom. Found a typo in the sportsmanship section that could be confusing.

Quote:

You do not have to award any 3 rating if you do not feel any players desire it and likewise you may award more than one 3 rating if you had more than one poor sportsman

The first "3" should be "1".

No its right. I'm using 1 for best (like 1st place) and 3 for not good. So it was correct. I'm not forcing anyone to give a 3 to anyone.

As for Claw and BGs. I'll just make it like Block for Big Guys for the tournament ... you can give it out but it takes a doubles to do so.

Galak

GalakStarscraper - Aug 26, 2005 - 02:11 PM
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Fixed ... BGs need doubles to get Claw or RSC.

Galak

GalakStarscraper - Aug 26, 2005 - 04:55 PM
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Change to make only blocking CAS count for CAS... and that's it for rules changes ... I'm done.

Final rules posted assuming GW doesn't make me change them.

AND PLEASE note this is an official GW tournament ... so GW only figs allowed just like the Blood Bowl.

Galak

Melifaxis - Aug 26, 2005 - 04:56 PM
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They should make exceptions if they have any GW piece in them (i.e. Ard Boyz Shoulder Pad) Very Happy

Xtreme - Aug 26, 2005 - 05:27 PM
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If that was the case you could just tell them that all your models were on GW bases. Wink

Melifaxis - Aug 26, 2005 - 08:01 PM
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Exactly!

Valen - Sep 02, 2005 - 03:01 PM
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I need to ckeck if my converted skaven team was from GW models, id idnt do them myslef Embarassed

Valen - Sep 08, 2005 - 03:16 AM
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Well flights booked, I arrive on the Thursday evening and leave Tuesday night. All I need is a place to stay now, is there anyone who is going for the same length of time that I may share a room with, if not I will probably just book a single room

majortusk - Sep 08, 2005 - 12:35 PM
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I will be coming for the tourney, Galak can i get the ftp user/pass so i can update the site and put all the info in the correct spots, to clean up the chaos cup site.

Jonny_P - Oct 05, 2005 - 11:00 AM
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Anyone know how many people have signed up? And to sign up early, do you have to pay, or can they just reserve a spot?

GalakStarscraper - Oct 05, 2005 - 02:17 PM
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jpeletis wrote:

Anyone know how many people have signed up? And to sign up early, do you have to pay, or can they just reserve a spot?

You just reserve a spot ... they removed the pre-pay requirement.

Galak

Valen - Oct 06, 2005 - 02:46 AM
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Have you registered my spot Galak, or do I need to call?

GalakStarscraper - Oct 06, 2005 - 06:49 AM
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Valen-S wrote:

Have you registered my spot Galak, or do I need to call?

I called for you ... didn't I?

Galak

avatar666 - Oct 06, 2005 - 09:21 AM
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Galak,

I was just curious if members could re-new NAF membership at this event.
I'm pretty sure we can, but I just wanted to verify.

SolarFlare - Oct 06, 2005 - 01:23 PM
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I just called and registered for the tournament. The guy there said they have over 30 registered at this point.

Valen - Oct 07, 2005 - 07:14 AM
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GalakStarscraper wrote:

Valen-S wrote:

Have you registered my spot Galak, or do I need to call?

I called for you ... didn't I?

Galak

I am not sure, thats why I was checking, I think you said you were though, so I am just being over cautious Embarassed

Zinak - Oct 07, 2005 - 10:36 AM
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Valen ... all your skaven are from GW minis 100%. I can only hope you take some photos so i can see 'em play.

Zinak

www.zinak.com

Xtreme - Oct 08, 2005 - 01:04 AM
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avatar666 wrote:

Galak,

I was just curious if members could re-new NAF membership at this event.
I'm pretty sure we can, but I just wanted to verify.

That can be arranged.

GalakStarscraper - Oct 08, 2005 - 07:46 AM
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Xtreme wrote:

That can be arranged.

Thanks Xtreme

Galak

Hoshi_Komi - Oct 08, 2005 - 09:23 PM
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well, not gonna be able to make it this year Sad

good luck to everyone Smile

Ken

GalakStarscraper - Oct 09, 2005 - 09:16 AM
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gken1 wrote:

well, not gonna be able to make it this year Sad

good luck to everyone Smile

Ken

Didn't we hear this once before this year???

Razz

If you really aren't going to be able to make it Ken ... I'm glad you could make GenCon so I could see you this year. Good luck with the little one and if memory serves correct you have a change in assignment coming up .. good luck with that as well.

Galak

Hoshi_Komi - Oct 09, 2005 - 03:03 PM
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yeah the wife officially shut me down Smile

Death Bowl III will probably be one of my last trip tourneys.

StoutYoungblood - Oct 13, 2005 - 08:03 AM
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SolarFlare wrote:

I just called and registered for the tournament. The guy there said they have over 30 registered at this point.

I live near the bunker and I just signed up last night. I was the 12th player to sign up.

Still plenty of room for players.

SolarFlare - Oct 13, 2005 - 10:17 AM
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Okay. Maybe he was saying they were "expecting" that many...

At any rate, I have 4 coming from Indy with me and know of another 2 coming from Indy.

Xtreme - Oct 13, 2005 - 03:10 PM
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I think most of those names are on the list already though. Way to go SolarFlare get everyones hopes up. Wink

Valen - Oct 17, 2005 - 02:43 AM
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Is there anyone who lives in Chicago, i could meet up with on the Friday otherwise I will be aimlesly wandering around Chicago:)

I arrive on Thursday, so am looking to have a look around Chicago on Friday

avatar666 - Oct 22, 2005 - 02:47 PM
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I just received the November White Dwarf in the mail, and I was surprised that GW actually mentioned it.

Also, I called up the Battle Bunker well over a month ago and signed up via the phone. They said I was the first so they started the list. I took a drive out there last week to play a friend in 40K and find out my name wasn't on the list there. I signed up, again. Maybe they misplaced the first list but you have to wonder how many other people were on that list (if any) that this was happened to as well.

Anyways I'm hoping for a great turn out, and a fun weekend of playing Blood Bowl above all. See you in a couple weeks. Skull

Xtreme - Oct 22, 2005 - 03:39 PM
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Quote:

I just received the November White Dwarf in the mail, and I was surprised that GW actually mentioned it.

How much of a mention was it? Full add or jsut a little event notice?

avatar666 - Oct 22, 2005 - 05:47 PM
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Here is a scan of the ad. (SEE BELOW)

It is a little bigger here, but in the mag it is about 1/6 of the page.

Also, Xtreme, did you find out for sure if we could re-new membership there? I was curious because mine expires like 3 days afterwards or so. If not I would do it online, but I was hoping to get the sleek blue dice right away if possible Razz

Xtreme - Oct 23, 2005 - 08:15 PM
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Quote:

Also, Xtreme, did you find out for sure if we could re-new membership there?

Yeah you can I'll have dice with me.

avatar666 - Oct 23, 2005 - 10:54 PM
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Sweet! Thanks. Worship

Jonny_P - Oct 24, 2005 - 04:28 PM
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Quote:

I called up the Battle Bunker well over a month ago and signed up via the phone

Don't be modest Dean, you won the Adepticup and got a free entry to this Chaos Cup...they should had your name on the list, no sign up needed. Too bad gken cannot make it, a rematch from last year between you two would be great.

And yes, I will renew my NAF subsciption as well.

Me and the Pow

Darkside Cowboys Pow

will see you all there!

Valen - Nov 01, 2005 - 03:39 PM
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Who is arriving on Friday, and if there's someone, do you fancy meeting up for a few drinks? If so where?

Melifaxis - Nov 04, 2005 - 07:45 AM
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Have fun folks!

Tojurub - Nov 04, 2005 - 09:16 AM
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yes, have fun guys

...and Valen, make sure the trophy goes back to Europe again Wink

Melifaxis - Nov 04, 2005 - 09:26 AM
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You sent the wrong guy Wink

Tojurub - Nov 04, 2005 - 09:47 AM
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I was talking about the trophy for drinking the most beer!!!!!

Melifaxis - Nov 04, 2005 - 10:08 AM
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He's not Irish... Wink

Tojurub - Nov 04, 2005 - 11:27 AM
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We trained him well within the European tourney scene...I think there are plenty of pictures to prove that Wink

Melifaxis - Nov 05, 2005 - 04:37 PM
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Glad he was trained properly, now where's our day one update? Wink

Tojurub - Nov 06, 2005 - 03:29 AM
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right...were's the update

Jonny_P - Nov 06, 2005 - 06:52 AM
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18 coaches only.....last year was 22. Not good.

As of right now, I am 2-0-1, but anything can happen with 2 more games today. There is one team currently 3-0, that is the other Dark Elf team besides me. There are at least 3 other teams that are 2-0-1 right now as well.

Tojurub - Nov 06, 2005 - 07:37 AM
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is it w-l-t or is it w-t-l?

How's Valen doing?

Melifaxis - Nov 06, 2005 - 07:48 AM
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Most likely WLT...but good question Smile

Is Valen drinking everyone under the table?

Tojurub - Nov 06, 2005 - 08:42 AM
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Melifaxis wrote:

Is Valen drinking everyone under the table?

I guess we'll hear about it tomorrow. Wink

majortusk - Nov 06, 2005 - 07:41 PM
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went drinking with Gavin Smile

not enough of us out drinkin. was a good time though.

overall went 3-2-0

orcs and the champion Delf team were my banes.

Paul - Nov 06, 2005 - 07:50 PM
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Quote:

went drinking with Gavin icon_smile.gif

not enough of us out drinkin. was a good time though.

thats too bad, I find thats half of the fun of a tournament. Hopefully I'll be able to make it next year.

Congrats to the winner.

Zarhan - Nov 07, 2005 - 07:06 AM
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I would of made it, as I live in the south burbs of Chicago. Unfortunately I work midnights, and have other obligations that wouldn't let me out for two days this year. I will probably be back next year, I will have to remember to save a vacation day, I use two for Gen Con to play there, anywayz I hope all had fun, especially my friend Phil, who was going to make it.

Bobbo Twisted Evil

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 08, 2005 - 08:20 AM
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Any update on the standings? Hope everyone had fun.

Ken

Alkaline13 - Nov 08, 2005 - 08:45 AM
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I think they said it would be a little while till it all gets updated. but either way.. that was a lot of fun! My first tourney, and now I am pumped to get into more. Very Happy

avatar666 - Nov 08, 2005 - 09:04 AM
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I had a great time there, and it was the second year in a row that I made it to the final round. The turn out was less than anticipated, but with some things that Tom brought up sounds like it will be a great one next year. The winner received a team of his choice professionally painted by the GW 'Eavy Metal team. Awsome, especially for someone like me who can not paint worth a crap.
Here is who won off memory, which is failing me in my old age Wink

. Tom mentioned the Chaos Cup site will be updated real soon.

Frank - 1st (Dk Elves)
Dean - 2nd (Skaven)
Valen - MVP
Jim - Most Touchdowns Scored
Mike - Best Painted (Pro Elves)
Phil - Best Sportsman (Amazons)
Alex(?) - Most casualties (2nd year in a row)
Ethan - Fewest touchdowns allowed (Goblin)

In the final, my Rat Orge refused to do anything worth while (as well as being injured in the fisrt turn of 2 of the other games), and my rats were getting knocked out like crazy! Frank played one heck of a game with his Dark Elve team and really deserved to win the final. Good job!

My Skaven team, Warped Vengeance, will be benched for a while and I plan on bringing out my Norse Team to next years Chaos Cup '06!

Here are a few thumbnail pics of the event. The last pic is the Giant ref holding the limited edition coin with the two team captains for the Chaos Cup.

Jonny_P - Nov 08, 2005 - 02:00 PM
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Awesome pics Dean. It was a fun time. Although I choked on Day 2, losing both games and finishing 2-2-1 (WLT), it was still great to see some people I met last year as well as all the new faces.

Hopefully we can continue the support in the Chicago area and get some NAF sanctioned tourneys locally in the meantime before next year's Chaos Cup.

Xtreme - Nov 08, 2005 - 05:43 PM
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Got the start of a photo album together though I will have to go through it with more detail later.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v506/Xtreme_NAF/Chaos-Cup/

Started out bad for me, Lost my first two matches pretty decidedly. Second one to Valen even Embarassed

Then recovered nicely and won the remaining 3 games.

avatar666 - Nov 08, 2005 - 06:09 PM
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Bryan, great job with your pictures. My old 1.3 mp camera didn't focus in on the close up's I took of the painted teams. All 4 teams selected for the Best Painted Category were incredible and I'd say golden daemon quality.

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 08, 2005 - 06:43 PM
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looks like it was fun guys. that pro-elf team was damn nice!

looks like brian forgot his gimmick for this tourney Smile

shame the wife kiboshed me, would've loved to have played you guys again!

GalakStarscraper - Nov 08, 2005 - 08:12 PM
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Yeah ... there were 18 folks which actually isn't a bad size for a US based tournament outside a convention.

However GW is seriously upping the ante ... the 1st prize for the Chaos Cup was a 16 man team of the winner's choice painted by the GW staff with oversight and assistance by a 14 time Golden Daemon winner ... so for all those of you that had better things to do than attend the Chaos Cup ... Frank thanks you for his wonderful 1st prize.

Doing this from memory:

Winner: Frank Bedford (Solarflare) with Dark Elves
Runner Up: Dean Peltis with Skaven
Most Valuable Coach: Valen with Dwarves

Best Painted: Michael (need to get last name) with a very incredible looking Pro Elf team.

Most TDs outside of the top 3 awarded above: Jim Morgan's Chaos Dwarves

Least TDs allowed outside of the top 3: Ethan Rippon's Goblins

Most CAS: Alex Schutte with Khemri

Best Sportsman: Philip (need to get last name) with Amazons

==========================

... it should be noted that Valen tied for Best Sportsman (so I don't know why you guys give him such a hard time).

For all the critics of the Chaos Cup ... at least we have GW's backing which isn't easy to get for SG events. They have a permanent stadium for the event. There is a permanent spot in the Bunker for the Chaos Cup trophy and a plaque showing the winners from each year. They are making etched crystal trophies for the top 3 winners and the GW staff painted 16 man team is just about the best first place prize I've ever seen offered for any BB event.

Why it doesn't get more players ... got me for now. US geographics are a serious pain to deal with. But they have already agreed on the date for next year and they are going to offer the same 1st prize next year and with the double NAF points as well ... I'm hoping the tournament breaks 30 to 40 players next year ... we'll see.

To help increase draw we did discuss this as an option already and GW agreed:

The other thing GW and I talked about doing is the below for next year's Chaos Cup.

1) Attendance for the Chaos Cup will be $20.
2) If you attended in 2005 and bring a friend, you get $10 off your entry fee for each friend up to 2 friends OR an extra limited edition Chaos Cup figure for each friend (your choice of the 2 options) ... however if you can bring 3 friends or more you'll get free entrance and an extra figure for each person you bring in your group ... (so bring 4 friends and get in free + 5 extra figures)
3) If you did not attend last year and bring 1 to 2 friend, you each get in for $15.
4) If you did not attend last year and and there are 4 or more in your group, you each get in for $15 and each get an extra limited edition Chaos Cup figure.

Add this to the 1st place 16 man team painted prize ... and we are hoping for some pretty good draw to visit.

Galak

Xtreme - Nov 08, 2005 - 08:34 PM
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gken1 wrote:

looks like it was fun guys. that pro-elf team was damn nice!

looks like brian forgot his gimmick for this tourney Smile

The Elf team was unreal.
I have several sketches for my gimmick for GenCon next year. Wink

StoutYoungblood - Nov 09, 2005 - 07:36 AM
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Hey Bobbo,

Played my Amazons and had 3 wins & 2 ties to come in 4th overall after Gavin. Won best Sportsman, though.

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 09, 2005 - 07:50 AM
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what's the date for the next Chaos Cup?

I think the current time frame is bad for most people in the US. Most people are traveling for thanksgiving and the holidays and a November tourney puts too much impact on them. Also like VTdoogie said in another thread, it's football season and many alumni go to their college games or watching pro games. A summer tourney in the June time frame when people aren't in school and such would be best I think. People will come if the time frames better, the first CC was in August if I remember correctly and had the best draw.
If people are forced to decide between family vacation and bloodbowl, family vacations will win out almost every time.

Just some thoughts if you want more outside midwest people to come.

GalakStarscraper - Nov 09, 2005 - 08:31 AM
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gken1 wrote:

Really early November interferes with Thanksgiving? Never would have had that thought cross my mind.

June is completely out of the question as I'm on vacation that entire month on the beach.

July doesn't work well either for two reasons ... 1) 4th of July is a big summer travel holiday and 2) if you avoid the 4th of July you'll put the tournament within weeks of the GenCon Bowl.

August is out because of GenCon.

I think the tournament is well placed ... I think folks just didn't see the reasons to come. As for the best attendance the 1st year. Lots of folks flew over from Europe, it was the 1st event, and JJ attended. All of those factors are very big deals to that 1st year attendance number.

Galak

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 09, 2005 - 08:51 AM
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It's during school season so college kids are pretty much out unless they live in the area.

If you have kids and are traveling for Thanksgiving/christmas, it's really close to do "another" trip and away from family. Need to spread things out. I think May should be considered then. I understand you have other committments during the summer but if you want to maximize attendence, summer is the time to have it. I also understand the Bloodwieser is in May, but I really doubt we are competing with the same crowd as the bloodwieser.

if you want people from outside the midwest, I think the summer would get more people. If not, you'll probably max out around high 20's/low 30's. People have more free time in the summer, I think that's pretty much a given.

Alkaline13 - Nov 09, 2005 - 10:24 AM
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Whatever works for you guys.. I know that the local people to the Chicago Bunker (Downers Grove), and going to be recruiting much more next year. I game there all the time, so I know for one.. I will be trying my best to get attendence up.

I think it just comes down to telling friends who tell friends.

StoutYoungblood - Nov 09, 2005 - 11:06 AM
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gken1 wrote:

It's during school season so college kids are pretty much out unless they live in the area.

... I think May should be considered then...

Early November is great, most colleges have Midterms done by then and it is early enough not to interfere with Thankgiving.

May is when most colleges have finals. Personally, when I was in college, the only things I thought about in May were finishing finals and finding another job for the summer. I don't think that would be the most optimal time esspecially since it would compete with the Blood Bowl. I know, eventually, I want to go to both.

I agree with Tom about a July/August event. I would be able to go to one but not both.

SolarFlare - Nov 09, 2005 - 11:07 AM
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It was definitely a great time. I would have liked to play Valen a game and leaving Hooters early was a bummer (althought I at least didn't get caught in the flood/rainstorm), but overall it was a blast.

All of my opponents were fun to play against, and I finished all of my games with only a tiny bit of nudging from Tom (finishing all my games was my stated goal because, well, sometimes I play too slowly).

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 09, 2005 - 11:40 AM
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well you'll continue to recruit the local crowd but people who live farther than 4-6 hours away will have a hard time, I think.
As for May I recommended June, but since Tom has made this his baby, his schedule conflicts with it.

it really is a bad time of the year.

GalakStarscraper - Nov 09, 2005 - 01:46 PM
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gken1 wrote:

As for May I recommended June, but since Tom has made this his baby, his schedule conflicts with it.

I pretty much inherited the Chaos Cup. Never really went out of my way to ask for it ... just sorta happened.

Galak

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 09, 2005 - 02:54 PM
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GalakStarscraper wrote:

gken1 wrote:

As for May I recommended June, but since Tom has made this his baby, his schedule conflicts with it.

I pretty much inherited the Chaos Cup. Never really went out of my way to ask for it ... just sorta happened.

Galak

hey, not blaming you or anything. You've definitely added to the experience with the mini's, rules and just the dedication. I'm just saying if you really want the tournament to grow, you need the out of towners. And I know just from my league that it's a bad time of the year.
I know Gencon is middle of August, so why not middle of July for CC? One month should be plenty of time and it'd definitely be easier to cross promote with the closer time frame.

For the out of towners to make this work, it's basically a 4-day weekend.
I REALLY think you should consider this tom as you're running it. November might fit perfectly into your schedule, but the big tournies do occur during the summer. I don't think that it's just a coincidence.

As for the other GW store taking charge, Bampf has GW ties and did offer to take it over and run it in Baltimore, a more population centric place imho. But you've invested alot of the time and effort into the tourney so I AM NOT recommending moving the tourney, just moving it to a more friendly time of the year.

majortusk - Nov 09, 2005 - 03:52 PM
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how about i put up a poll on TCC.com

SolarFlare - Nov 10, 2005 - 06:25 AM
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The other major gaming convention (Origins) occurs the first or second week of July every year in Columbus. If we held the Chaos Cup in the middle of July, we would probably lose some players to that (I know I'd be one).

Valen - Nov 10, 2005 - 06:36 AM
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Well back now and would just like to say yet again I had a great weekend, and as long as it doenst clash with any of the other majors then i will be back next year (I am trying to do the 4 majors next year Smile

)

With those prizes on offer the euro turnout next year should be alot bigger, so I think trying to avoid the bigger euro tornis may be a good idea, but that is just my opinion.

BB_Babe - Nov 10, 2005 - 10:11 AM
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The Fall isn't necessarily bad. There were 32 players at The Deathbowl in mid-October. The 5 hour drive from Boston to Montreal (much longer in the pouring rain like this time, ugh) is fine for me. Even up to a 7-8 drive I'd consider; but alas a trip out to Chicago is not a quick jaunt.

Xtreme - Nov 10, 2005 - 08:42 PM
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Hey Val glad you made it home alright it was nice meeting you in person. Hope to see you next year.

vt_doogie - Nov 13, 2005 - 11:50 AM
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I can confirm gken's thoughts. I know that I had a real-life football game to go to that weekend which knocked it out of my schedule. I would have loved to go, but bad time of year. 2 other members of our league also have season ticket to RL football. Heck most of the appeal to this game in the states is that is like RL football.

Personal Opinion is try to work with an existing 3-day weekend period. It should help attendence as more can travel from distance having to take only 1-day off from work. Also work it in either leading up to RL football season or right after RL football ends to feed off that.

Potential dates that would fit that mold:
4th of July weekend
Labor Day weekend (RL football starts around here and GenCon so probably a bad idea)
Columbus Day (in the middile of RL football)
Veterans Day (too close to Thanksgiving)
President's Day (timing is near SuperBowl, think this would be a great time IMO)
Other 3-days:
Memorial Day (end of May)

That President's Day weekend would seem to me to be a very good timeframe to have this major, other than weather. The NFL season is coming to a conclusion with interest and excitement in football near its height. Perfect time to try to suck new coaches in and energize people. The 3-day weekend helps on having to take less vacation time. Not sure if travel costs are down or up that time of year on flights and such...

Clearly trying to do that for next year won't work, not much time between tourneys. (2 months)

My rambling thoughts on the topic.
VTdoogie

Xtreme - Nov 13, 2005 - 12:05 PM
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Vetrens day would only be a week later. But from what i've seen tournaments on holiday weekends have never faired well.

vt_doogie - Nov 13, 2005 - 12:36 PM
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Personally for me anytime during football season (Sep-Dec) is bad.

I would think in the US 3-day weekend tourneys would do well. How many have been tried? I don't believe many have been done.

Gken ran the DC Invitational on Memorial Day weekend here. attendence wasn't bad... believe 16 or so and we didn't advertise very early.

I believe setting up a major for a 3-day weekend could work quite well for pulling out-of towners. The need to take 2 days of work off is a major downer for many a tourney for me.

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 13, 2005 - 12:40 PM
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Also I think if the tourney was held in the summer 4 guys from my league would probably make the trip.

Alkaline13 - Nov 13, 2005 - 12:42 PM
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I say just pick a date, and stick to it.

If you schedule it.. they will come.

StoutYoungblood - Nov 14, 2005 - 06:45 AM
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Xtreme wrote:

Vetrens day would only be a week later. But from what i've seen tournaments on holiday weekends have never faired well.

I believe trying to plan an event on a holiday weekend would be less successful for bringing in more people. The date it is on is a good one. Lets leave it there.

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 14, 2005 - 07:33 AM
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StoutYoungblood wrote:

I believe trying to plan an event on a holiday weekend would be less successful for bringing in more people. The date it is on is a good one. Lets leave it there.

yeah, cuz 22 and 18 are great numbers for a major.....

GalakStarscraper - Nov 14, 2005 - 07:52 AM
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gken1 wrote:

yeah, cuz 22 and 18 are great numbers for a major.....

Then you run it Ken because like it or not the best time to move it to would be June which I cannot do because I'm out of town the entire monyh.

I cannot do President's Day because I work 80 hour weeks in January and February.

I won't do late July or August because its too close to GenCon and if anyone really believe that folks would give up the 4th of July to attend a BB tourney if they have family they are nuts.

I run the South Bend Slaughter tournament in May and thus I'm not willing to move it to their either.

I'm not saying you don't have valid points but the bottom line is that the timing of the tournament works best with what I have available.

Basically I could run the Chaos Cup in late March, early April, October, or early November. Outside of those time periods I cannot and right now the Chaos Cup is my tournament to run. You don't like the date, then you arrange the tournament.

Sorry for the tone back, but Ken I already stated why I cannot move the tournament to the dates that you want and to beat me over the head about it after I state those reason is just kicking a dead horse.

Galak

Alkaline13 - Nov 14, 2005 - 08:01 AM
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We need to just set the date for one weekend, it's in a year.. if people cannot get off work, that's too bad. I don't wanna sound like a jerk, but why work around one person's schedule? gken, I'm sorry if you are unhappy with the date being set.. but why make everything try and change so it works out for you? (That's a little selfish, don't you think?)

avatar666 - Nov 14, 2005 - 08:02 AM
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Quote:

If you schedule it.. they will come.

I agree.

Quote:

yeah, cuz 22 and 18 are great numbers for a major.....

That's a little harsh.

No matter how much you can try and change things to gear towards a few people that doesn't guarantee a better turn out. By changing the date you may get some more people who can make it on that day, but at the same time lose some people who would have been able to make it in early November. People do have lives outside of Bloodbowl and there will always be factors that can cause them not to make it. A good example would be last year when you were one of the people who voted on that a two day tourney would be draw a bigger turn out than a one day one, but you were not able to make it this year - and the fact is that there was a slightly smaller turn out as well. Do not take this the wrong way. I'm not ripping on you or saying anything bad - just that the point is no matter when it is, personal family matters will always take priority over a board game. I plan on making it next year, but I would have to miss it if for more important family or personal reasons.

That said, I think things like promoting it better and making it known about the things Tom brought up (about prizes and the discounts for bringing more coaches) will make for a better turn out next year regardless of dates chosen.

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 14, 2005 - 08:02 AM
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do Mid JULY!!! ONE MONTH IS ENOUGH ROOM BETWEEN GenCon and the proposed time.

I would run the tourney with BAMPF in BALTIMORE if I could. Logistics don't permit me to run a tourney in Chicago and you know it Tom.

Sorry, you haven't drawn the out of state crowd yet in two years. So you should change the time it's run to get a better draw.

I'm sure you could set up the date in June for GW. I'm supportive of you for what you've done but the US major isn't producing. I think with the rules already set up and the backbone behind the Tourney there, it doesn't have to be you running the tourney. If a tourney in June could draw 40 and a November tourney draws 25, it seems that the June tourney would be the time to have it, even if it meant that you weren't running it.

I'd like to see the bloodbowl major suceed in the US instead of being the butt of many jokes.

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 14, 2005 - 08:05 AM
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Alkaline13 wrote:

why make everything try and change so it works out for you? (That's a little selfish, don't you think?)

I'm not changing it for me, I will be in a Navy school at the time and will most likely not be able to get the time off. I'm trying to make the CC not be the butt of tourney scene jokes.

The Chaos Cup has had the best prizes of any tournament out there yet still no draw. It's been scheduled for the last two years yet not enough peopl come so the "schedule it and people will come" is a bunch of crap.

Fact is the last Chaos Cup held in the summer out drew both of the last CC combined.

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 14, 2005 - 08:09 AM
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avatar666 wrote:

I plan on making it next year .

also I did vote for it to be a two day tourney. 4 games in one day is rough. I was planning on attending this year but the wife nixed it on me, plus me attending would've only boosted it to 19....

would you be attending it if it wasn't in Chicago? I haven't seen you at any other bloodbowl tourneys?

Yeah it's convienent for you because its in your back yard.

The bloodbowl tournies are made off of the people who actually travel to to the tournies. That's how you get the big tournies. Otherwise the Chaos Cup will continue to be Chicago's Big Local Tourney instead of the United States wide MAJOR its supposed to be.

Alkaline13 - Nov 14, 2005 - 08:09 AM
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gken1 wrote:

I'm not changing it for me, I will be in a Navy school at the time and will most likely not be able to get the time off...

It's been scheduled for the last two years yet not enough people come so the "schedule it and people will come" is a bunch of crap.

Wow.. it's good to know that you are behind the hobby. You are a very productive member of this forum.. I can tell that already.

Listen, please don't rip on ideas being thrown into the mix. I don't know why you are making such a big deal if you can't even go.

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 14, 2005 - 08:14 AM
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http://www.bloodbowl.net/naf.php?page=tournamentinfo&uname=gken1

looks like I have been to a few tournaments and know what I'm talking about.....

I've travelled to England, Canada, down to Florida, Flew to the first CC from Hawaii....so I think I know what it takes to attend a tourney and what would bring me to one. And I'm the type of bloodbowler the Chaos Cup needs to draw to be successful.

I support the hobby significantly. I support alot of tournies. The Chaos Cup is one on the size of a Local tourney not the Major that it's supposed to be.

I haven't seen any ideas thrown out except mine. I'd like to see more people attend this tourney. I have guys in my league right now who would go to it if it was scheduled at a better time.

And if my league is a microcosm of other leagues, then you'd see more people. You need to look past your nose and see the big picture of the tourney scene.

avatar666 - Nov 14, 2005 - 11:54 AM
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Quote:

would you be attending it if it wasn't in Chicago? I haven't seen you at any other bloodbowl tourneys?

Yeah it's convienent for you because its in your back yard.

I was only making a point, not ripping on you. My point being even if they changed the date doesn't gurantee that you (or anyone else) could make it then. You can not cater to everyone for an event - a date should be made and you go with it. True, I don't get to travel as much as I'd like to attend all these other tourneys farther away due to family reasons.I don't have the resume of NAF games you have played, but I attend what I can and am happy with that. I'm not out to win any popularity awards.

Alkaline13 - Nov 14, 2005 - 12:15 PM
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gken1 wrote:

http://www.bloodbowl.net/naf.php?page=tournamentinfo&uname=gken1

looks like I have been to a few tournaments and know what I'm talking about.....

Actually, it just looks like you are an asshole. Don't be so condescending. We are all here to have fun.

majortusk - Nov 14, 2005 - 12:17 PM
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Timing of the CC has been perfect, except for year 1.

basically bringing it even closer to Gen Con will absolutely prevent me from going to both

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 14, 2005 - 12:24 PM
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Alkaline13 wrote:

Actually, it just looks like you are an *censored*. Don't be so condescending. We are all here to have fun.

I never ripped you, yet you resort to calling names....pah.

you've slandered me twice in one page.....

Melifaxis - Nov 14, 2005 - 12:29 PM
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Alkaline13 wrote:

Actually, it just looks like you are an *censored*. Don't be so condescending. We are all here to have fun.

Yeah, your post was in the spirit of fun.

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 14, 2005 - 12:29 PM
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majortusk wrote:

Timing of the CC has been perfect, except for year 1.

basically bringing it even closer to Gen Con will absolutely prevent me from going to both

come on Andy. I've played you at both CC's and had fun both times. I actually came out to Gencon this year, hoping to see you again. I think you said the price was too high for the event (which I agree). After attending Gencon and bloodbowl only tournies, I prefer the bloodbowl only tournies. Gencon will always be the #1 US tourney though just due to the size of the con and Tom's hard work at going to it.

Well, I've stated my case and I really don't see why the locals are so against a different month. The only arguement from others outside of tom I've seen is, "schedule it and they will come". It's been scheduled before....and they HAVEN'T come.

Alkaline13 - Nov 14, 2005 - 12:30 PM
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Sometimes the truth hurts.

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 14, 2005 - 12:36 PM
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avatar666 wrote:

I am not trying to win popularity award either. My point is that if you want people to travel to the CC to make it better you have to consider the people who are willing to travel to the event and willing to shell out the $300+ to make it happen. A $5 refund on bringing a buddy won't bring these people. Scheduling it when travel is easier on the demands will.

I posted my tourney listing more to show that I know what it takes to travel the long distances to make it to a tourney and what it costs. I've been blessed the last couple of years to have the time and money to do what I want. But I also read on the boards that others think the US Majors are a joke and that if you want to win/get an award just make the trip over. I think the quality of US coaches is just fine and that we could defend our titles.

And I am not asking to cater to MY schedule or anyone else's specifically. I am asking that it be scheduled when MosT people can make it to the tourney. If it's November...it's November...but if it's not...then reschedule it.

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 14, 2005 - 12:37 PM
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Alkaline13 wrote:

Sometimes the truth hurts.

I see no truth in your posts. Just blind ignorance.

SolarFlare - Nov 14, 2005 - 01:27 PM
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IF we are looking at changing the time or location of the event, it seems to me the Chicago Battle Bunker should be consulted since they have stated that they are committed to supporting the event (and supplying the fantastic prizes that were mentioned before).

Regardless of the time of year, there will be some conflicts for some people. It does not make sense to have the Chaos Cup compete with the major US conventions (GenCon and Origins) for attendance. It could make sense to have the Chaos Cup at Origins (which I know would draw 3 new players right away). But, the people who are committed to running the event (Tom and Chicago GW) should absolutely first be considered.

If Europeans think our tourneys are a "joke," then they can stay away. Sure, Wolfgang has done well at GenCon, and another European won Chaos Cup a few years back, but we can play just fine without them. (There is no need to get into bashing players from other countries here. I have definitely enjoyed hanging out with the guys who have made the trip.) As I understand it, GenCon and Chaos Cup (both with European players) were both won by American coaches this year.

Finally, the tone of the recent posts is pathetic. Ken's tone is, at best condescending, and, in truth, offensive. (It is surprising to see that coming from one of the best players in the U.S.) And the out-right name-calling is completely unnecessary. If you can't post in a civil manner, find something better to do, please.

Rune_Master - Nov 14, 2005 - 02:30 PM
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I know I am a newbie (and more than a little hesitant to jump in the middle of this firestorm, or should I say flame-storm), but why not hold the CC in different locations each year? Why not just change the name of the TKC or the Brouhaha or the Phracus to the CC for that particular year? I mean, the fluff supports the idea that the CC is held at random times and at random places, hence the association with the word CHAOS.

Just my two cents...

GalakStarscraper - Nov 14, 2005 - 03:02 PM
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Rune_Master wrote:

Because GW-Chicago has spent over $5,000 on permanent fixtures to hold the Chaos Cup and to be honest it is their tournament to run. You cannot move the Chaos Cup because that tournament is the property currently of GW-Chicago.

And Ken I will completely disagree on one of your points ... call it ego if you will. A tournament is only as good as its organizer. The Chaos Cup might be able to run if Majortusk took over, but the bottom line is that it takes a good tournament organizer to run a successful event that is well thought of (see avatar666's comments about the last year you came).

I'm not convinced I can just step away from the Chaos Cup and everything will be as jim dandy as you suggest.

As for having it in mid-July and begin fine with GenCon ... no thanks. I already give up one entire week in August of my summer to prepare for GenCon and I don't get home from Summer vacation with my family until just after the 4th of July. I'm not sure I could even get permission from my wife to go to Blood Bowl tournaments one month apart.

Also Ken, the first year the touranment was held had a lot going for it. 1st Chaos Cup and JJ was attending ... that was a big draw by itself and even with that ... NAF attendance in 2003 was 22 player vs the 18 we had in 2005 ... and that 18 was big improvement on the 14 NAF members from last year's Chaos Cup that you attended.

And the bottom line here is Ken that GW-Chicago said they really would rather have this tournament in November it works well for them. They are willing to stick with 2 day 5 game schedules and to give great prize support. Also like it or not Ken ... the Chaos Cup is still on the 4th largest tournament in the US ... the demographics of the US are a rough crowd to work with.

The real question for the Chaos Cup is what it would take to bring the Canadians down. In all reality as I see it, this is the single biggest factor to increasing the size of the Chaos Cup.

Galak

GalakStarscraper - Nov 14, 2005 - 03:34 PM
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Okay .. a 2nd response.

1) Lay off Ken please. He is a passionate BB player that really does want the Chaos Cup to succeed. His posts are aimed at that more than anything.

2) I think we are working under a basic false assumption on what we can get for attendance.

The GenCon Bowl and Chaos Cup have been run for the same number of years. Let's look at Total Attendance and NAF attendance for both:

GenCon:
2003 - 60 coaches (48 NAF)
2004 - 46 coaches (40 NAF)
2005 - 53 coaches (47 NAF) (JJ attends)

Chaos Cup
2003 - 42 coaches (22 NAF) (JJ attends)
2004 - 22 coaches (14 NAF)
2005 - 18 coaches (18 NAF)

=========================

Now based on talking with several folks I'm going to argue several factors why that 42 number may be very difficult to match and the time of year has nothing to do with it. I wish I had a 4th year of data from GenCon ... to prove out some of my thoughts so bear with me.

1) 1st year syndrome and JJ. Using GenCon as a baseline ... once the newest of the tournament wears off ... that resulted in a 23.5% drop in attendance at GenCon. JJ coming the next year gives me a 15% increase in coaches attending. Combine the two effects and you have effectively an expected 38.5% drop in attendance ... what we saw was 47.5% drop ... the extra 9% = 4 coaches ... which will follow.

2) Poor organization. I know several coaches that did not attend in year 3 because of the way GW ran the tournament in 2004. Also the Chaos Cup failed to impress the folks that came from out of the US. These numbers quickly account for the remaining drop.

==========

My bottom line. Without the 1st year effect and no JJ and the poor reputation it earned from years 1 and 2 ... the 18 number is actually not suprising and the 22 number from year 2 is only 4 under the 26 that I would predict using GenCon as a model.

IE ... the date had virtually nothing to do with the attendance of the first Chaos Cup. Moving it would not bring in the coaches. The attendance in 2003 had nothing to do with being in summer.

The Chaos Cup needs to fix it reputation ... I think they did a lot to do that this year ... it might take some time ... but I think it can be a decent tournament for size .. but I don't think you'll see the 40+ number for some time and thinking a summer date will produce it I believe is a false belief.

Galak

Gaussgoat - Nov 14, 2005 - 03:57 PM
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majortusk wrote:

how about i put up a poll on TCC.com

?Anyone?

Jonny_P - Nov 14, 2005 - 09:32 PM
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The Chaos Cup was a blast. Last year we had 3 coaches from our gaming group there. This year we had 5. Next year, especially with the referral incentive we hope to have 8-10. That's just from Chicago alone. You add in the other tourney regulars and it will eventually become a large event. I would not bail on the date or location.

And yeah, I'm local to it so it would suck if it got moved, but oh well. We could always run a local Chicago NAF tourney and get at least the locals there and have a great time. I enjoyed the Chaos Cup but i'm not going to cry if it got moved.

Tom: great job running it, with more GW support (like we are currently seeing), I'm sure next year will also be a success.

Hoshi_Komi - Nov 15, 2005 - 07:40 AM
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thanks to the guys who pm'd me with support but don't want to get involved with this.

Rune_Master - Nov 15, 2005 - 08:13 AM
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First of all Galak, while I may not have thousands of posts, or "earned" my opinion by virtue of my tournament history, don't trivialize my comment by by giving a condescending reply to me and then move on to bash Ken some more. I have no reason to not respect you, please don't give me one.
The fact that GW LTD. spent money in Chicago to host a tournament is not relevant to the name "Chaos Cup". That name can be retracted and/or moved wherever and whenever they choose, and you know that. Not to mention, I never suggested GW-Chicago not host a tourny, I only suggested moving the name and the "major" status to rotating locations.

Because GW-Chicago has spent over $5,000 on permanent fixtures to hold the Chaos Cup and to be honest it is their tournament to run. You cannot move the Chaos Cup because that tournament is the property currently of GW-Chicago.

Melifaxis - Nov 15, 2005 - 09:00 AM
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The Chaos Cup should be THE US Tourney. So what has to be done to get it there?

1) Realize that folks proposing changes are just trying to help and maintain a respectful conversation.
2) You have the date for next year already so please post it. Then people can plan ahead. If you want to draw folks from more than 5-6 hours away by car, then chances are they'll be flying. Give them the opportunity to book flights now with frequent flyer miles (before they get blacked out) or regularly (looking for bargain prices over time).
3) Advertise the prizes before the event (Big failure this year...you had a gem there and didnt use it).
4) Date change could help, but it doesnt look like thats going to happen so future suggestions should try to work with the date in hand.
5) Arrange a discounted block of rooms if possible.
6) The attendance discount will help draw locals, but $5 isnt going to get someone to fly.
7) Get JJ to come...clearly he draws a crowd. Andy does too. Would a sculptor like SteveB or Phil? I know I'd be interested in hearing them give a talk on sculpting minis.
8 ) Keep brainstorming other ideas...lots of smart folks here so let's hear your ideas....just keep it constructive...

GalakStarscraper - Nov 15, 2005 - 11:00 AM
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Rune_Master wrote:

Sigh ... it was not meant to be condescending ... honest! I know from talking to Snots that when I post things that I believe/know are facts that they come off as condescending ... I really honestly thought I was giving you a direct answer to why the tournament could not be moved. I'll elaborate more on why it cannot be moved to follow.

The truth Rune_Master is that the Chaos Cup is the property of GW-Chicago. Your suggestion that the GW can just choose to move the Chaos Cup whereever they want is not true. The GW corp and the NAF do not control the Chaos Cup, GW-Chicago does. This is like saying that if we the coaches don't like the way the Blood Bowl is run that we can move it to be held at the Tulips tournament or another GW store ... that is just not true.

Look guys ... this is not the NAF's tournament. It is GW tournament and they have told me that they want to have it in November. Bashing me for trying to explain this is shooting the messenger to be honest.

So Rune_Master/Gken/vt_doogie ... everyone ... I'm not trying to be disrespectful or flame or ignore or be condenscending to anyone. But this is not MY tournament ... and it is not the NAF's tournament either.

The other thing is I really need to explain something about how GW US works as I think that's a piece of data that Rune_Master is missing.

Quote:

The fact that GW LTD. spent money in Chicago to host a tournament is not relevant to the name "Chaos Cup". That name can be retracted and/or moved wherever and whenever they choose, and you know that.

Actually this is not the case. GW LTD did not spend the money. GW Chicago did. The trophy, the permanent plaque, and the Chaos Cup stadium are the property of the Chicago Battle Bunker. GW in the US is regionally divided ... each region is its own company for financial reporting. So GW LTD would not retract the name and would not move it wherever or whenever they choose ... this tournament is property of GW Chicago Battle Bunker just like the Blood Bowl is owned by GW-Nottingham.

And why I'm getting upset is because the forceful comments from the posters here to move the tournament is like asking me to move the GenCon Bowl ... I don't get the ability to pick the dates of that tournament or the Chaos Cup ... they are picked by someone else. So if my tone sounds upset I apologize ... but you guys are targetting an element I have very very little control over (if I have any at all).

Last year the critics were aimed at the way the event was organized, advertised, how sportsmanship worked, and how the final tournament placing was determined. These were all items I could control so I did everything I could to fix the problems with these items. I'm more than willing to bend over backwards to help make this tournament a success but I just ask folks to aim at elements that I actually control.

Galak

GalakStarscraper - Nov 15, 2005 - 11:03 AM
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Melifaxis wrote:

7) Get JJ to come...clearly he draws a crowd. Andy does too. Would a sculptor like SteveB or Phil? I know I'd be interested in hearing them give a talk on sculpting minis.

This requires the event to pay for their plane ticket which is not an inexpensive proposal.

GW-Chicago put all the money from the entry fees back into prizes and offered up the space and extra labour for free. So any attempt to bring JJ or anyone else in would require us to put that cost on the players that play. Which would mean an entry fee of probably $50 a person just to pay for that visit.

I paid for this out of my own pocket for GenCon to get to met JJ and have him visit the GenCon Bowl ... I think the ability to do this again is a big question mark in terms of the cost.

Galak

Melifaxis - Nov 15, 2005 - 11:09 AM
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Fair enough...what about a domestic sculptor...lower cost...or is there a guy right in Chicago even?

I dunno just brainstorming.

GalakStarscraper - Nov 15, 2005 - 11:18 AM
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Melifaxis wrote:

2) You have the date for next year already so please post it. Then people can plan ahead. If you want to draw folks from more than 5-6 hours away by car, then chances are they'll be flying.

My hope is by month's end I'll have the Chaos Cup website updated for 2006. GW has set next year's tournament for November 4th and 5th.

Quote:

3) Advertise the prizes before the event (Big failure this year...you had a gem there and didnt use it).

I didn't know about the painted team until 30 minutes before I handed out the prizes. It was something GW decided to offer at the last minute ... they even asked me if it was a good prize because they didn't know if it was.

Quote:

4) Date change could help, but it doesnt look like thats going to happen so future suggestions should try to work with the date in hand.

To be clear on this ... GW Chicago has said before that the summer is bad timing for the Chaos Cup. The early November date works very well for their events schedule.

Quote:

5) Arrange a discounted block of rooms if possible.

The Red Roof is really cheap for Chicago. I split the room with a friend for $30 a night for each of us. (actually it ended up being $25 a night as we let Xtreme sleep on the floor for $10 a night)

Quote:

6) The attendance discount will help draw locals, but $5 isnt going to get someone to fly.

Understood but there are several BB leagues in Chicago, Detriot, Fort Wayne, South Bend, Milwaukee, and Indianapolis. If just a decent number of those folks made the trip as they are all within driving distance ... the touranment would easily exceed 40 players.

Quote:

7) Get JJ to come...clearly he draws a crowd. Andy does too. Would a sculptor like SteveB or Phil? I know I'd be interested in hearing them give a talk on sculpting minis.

If plane tickets were not a mint I'd try this. And will a local sculptor really be a draw to get folks to come?

Quote:

8 ) Keep brainstorming other ideas...lots of smart folks here so let's hear your ideas....just keep it constructive...

I totally agree with this.

Galak

Melifaxis - Nov 15, 2005 - 11:45 AM
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Thanks. Looks like airlines only have schedules online through October 2006 so in a few weeks November should be online (checked Delta and USAirways and even Expedia).

Is Midway a better spot to land than OHare or is it 6 of 1 half-dozen of another?

GalakStarscraper - Nov 15, 2005 - 12:14 PM
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Melifaxis wrote:

Is Midway a better spot to land than OHare or is it 6 of 1 half-dozen of another?

6 or 1 half-dozen ... I think. One of locals could tell you better which one is best ... but I'd guess you'd need to arrang for someone to pick you up from either airport to get to Downer's Grove or split renting a car.

Galak

Rune_Master - Nov 15, 2005 - 12:55 PM
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How about someone who is a "master" terrain builder? I'd love to get time-saving/money-saving/building tips on numerous ways to build a custom pitch.

GalakStarscraper - Nov 15, 2005 - 12:59 PM
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Rune_Master wrote:

How about someone who is a "master" terrain builder? I'd love to get time-saving/money-saving/building tips on numerous ways to build a custom pitch.

Trick would be when to have this presentation.

We run the tournament full bore out. 2 hour rounds with 1 hour breaks between rounds. After the 3rd game on Saturday everyone headed out to get drinks and food. (have to remember to call ahead to Hooters next year for seating).

After the awards on Sunday ... it was a pretty quick exit as well. I guess you could try and have him show some tricks during one of the 1 hour breaks ... but I'm guess that would be tight.

Galak

Rune_Master - Nov 15, 2005 - 01:13 PM
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if lunch is held in-house, that's an hour. I mean, it could be one of the players, maybe bring some examples of work they have done and just have a q&a, doesn't have to be a formal presentation.
Or how about this, ask anybody who is coming if they would be willing to answer questions on painting, converting, terrain, etc... Maybe they can say a few words on their chosen subject and then be available through the tournament for short chats with interested coaches.

GalakStarscraper - Nov 15, 2005 - 01:21 PM
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Rune_Master wrote:

if lunch is held in-house

Lunch was everyone on his own both days as there are several places very close the battle bunker to grab food and many folks willing to bring stuff back for those without travel means.

Galak

Rune_Master - Nov 15, 2005 - 01:27 PM
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ok ok ok, then just post on the website beforehand that certain coaches have been confirmed, maybe post a pic or two of their team, their custom pitch, whatever. And let it be known that it would be greatly appreciated if people "highlighted" as such would be available for chats/q&a's/etc throughout the time of the tourny. maybe give them some sort of special recognition award or something
Or we could get Matt Forbeck(?),the guy that wrote the Blood Bowl "novel", and take him out back before he writes again!

GalakStarscraper - Nov 15, 2005 - 01:33 PM
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Rune_Master wrote:

Or we could get Matt Forbeck(?),the guy that wrote the Blood Bowl "novel", and take him out back before he writes again!

Now I liked the BB novels. They were light reading fun. I met Matt at GenCon and he was definitely a good guy. He came over to watch the last round of the GenCon Bowl with JJ.

Galak

avatar666 - Nov 15, 2005 - 01:41 PM
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There is a guy who works at the GW Battle Bunker (where the Chaos Cup is held) that makes most of the scenery tables in the place and is a Golden Daemon winner several times over. He was working the counter during the Chaos Cup this year. Galak, I'm sure if you ran it by Joe, he would probably allow this guy, Tim Lison ( http://demonwinner.free.fr/peintre.php?id_peintre=136 ), to do something of the nature.

If GW did do that, then the question is when? My best guess would be to make it optional for those who wanted to stick around after the games on the first day of the tourney. That may be the best time. Between wouldn't work. Just some thoughts.

It is a pretty good suggestion, and since the resource is there no extra cost (or minimum). If this may help draw people, it may be worth looking into.

Now what I was going to suggest is if we could up the playing time to 2:15 for games and a 30-45 minute break. I know there are lots of things to ebter and calculate before the next matches, it's just sometimes really tight playing a game in the 2 hours. Any thoughts on that?

Rune_Master - Nov 15, 2005 - 01:42 PM
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OK...I'm done...you've beaten me down far enough thank you...anybody ELSE have any ideas?

Jonny_P - Nov 15, 2005 - 01:57 PM
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Let's get Phil (Stout Youngblood) to make a custom Chaos Cup bb pitch, sell it to GW and have GW give that away as a prize or raffle prize. That would be awesome. Phil - post some pics if you think this is a good idea.

For local painting/scuplting talent, yes the Bunker's Tim Lison, and other local Golden Demon winners Jen Haley and Joe Orteza. All 3 have scuplted models for the very popular Chicago Warhammer event, Adepticon www.adepticon.org - you can probly talk to the organizer of Adepticon for those people's contact info.

As far as a painting/scuplting/terrain building class I don't think it would work well for time, but to have more prizes that is something everyone is for. I thought the scheduling was fine as it left you a little time to finish a game if it was running over into a break period.

Another option could be with every paid Chaos Cup entry GW gives 20-30% off product those days for those people. It's not enough to hurt them in any way, yet it gives a little more incentive.

GalakStarscraper - Nov 15, 2005 - 02:00 PM
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avatar666 wrote:

Now what I was going to suggest is if we could up the playing time to 2:15 for games and a 30-45 minute break.

Most players had 2:15 or more to play their next match this year.

As soon as I had the next round figured out I put out the sheets for the next match. Thus allowing you to start as soon as you and your opponent were ready. I plan on doing this next year as well.

30 to 45 minutes is enough time for me to get the matches figures out. So I plan on just trying to get the matches out for folks to start early IF they desire to. My problem is that since I don't have food brought in for lunch ... I REALLY need to allow an hour break between rounds. If I go with 2:15 rounds ... then we end up wrapping up at 7 pm IF everything starts on time ... this year .. we got started 20 minutes late because of folks rolling in at 5 minutes to 10 and wanting to be in the tournament.

I'd rather assign rounds early and have 2 hour cutoffs to the rounds than have the tournament finishing at 7:30 because we start late and the rounds are 2:15 long.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Tom

avatar666 - Nov 15, 2005 - 02:12 PM
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Quote:

Hopefully that makes sense.

Good points and it does make sense. Just some of the things people like me don't really think about that much when playing the games and not running them.

vt_doogie - Nov 15, 2005 - 04:56 PM
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OK I realize GW Chicago is in the driver's seat on date...

But I want to bring up one other point and then will shut-up and wait to see if the dates hapen to get lucky and I'm free around Aug/Sep next year.

GalakStarscraper wrote:

Okay .. a 2nd response.

2) I think we are working under a basic false assumption on what we can get for attendance.

The GenCon Bowl and Chaos Cup have been run for the same number of years. Let's look at Total Attendance and NAF attendance for both:

GenCon:
2003 - 60 coaches (48 NAF)
2004 - 46 coaches (40 NAF)
2005 - 53 coaches (47 NAF) (JJ attends)

Chaos Cup
2003 - 42 coaches (22 NAF) (JJ attends)
2004 - 22 coaches (14 NAF)
2005 - 18 coaches (18 NAF)

=========================

Galak

My Thoughts on the numbers:
GenCon is in the SUMMER, when school is out of session.
2003 was a big boom year in BB interest.
JJ draws a crowd.
GenCon will probably always draw a bigger crowd due to the big Gaming convention that draws people regardless of the BB.

GW -Chicago PROBABLY (Note this is MY opinion only) prefers having events like the Chaos Cup in the fall months to try to bring in extra sales in a lower sales period. I'm guessing that during the summer the place is packed with kiddies spending there summer in the game shop. I'm guessing that the time frame is before the big thanksgiving Christmas sales rush. They aren't as busy and would like extra sales. I can't blame them.

Summer, as you prove Galak, is the time of year that people prefer to travel as a family. The only way this tourney will have staying power as something other than a regional tourney will require a timing change, IMO. The die-hard will come if their schedules allow, but I still feel at least half of those die-hards in the US are real-life football fanatics (Pro, College, or HS). And the US major isn't an option for them half the years. That to me is a shame, but I'll shut-up now.

My only suggestions for drawing in more of the locals are:
1) Advertise, advertise, advertise (check if the Chicago GW sends out a local/regional flyer to frequent customers and ask for a small corner to advertise)
2) Suggest local leagues try having their seasons end before the tourney and the winner of the season gets a paid (by the league) trip to the CC. Others will carpool with them...

Deathwing - Nov 15, 2005 - 05:54 PM
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OK, first of all I'm glad to see things have calmed down a little on this thread. I know it's an emotive subject but some of the remarks made were OTT in my opinion. Please, everybody, keep it calm and civil in future.
That said, some of my thoughts on the subject. Bear in mind that the scene (as I understand it) is very different here in Europe, so my thoughts may not be relevent or practical
We've established that The Chaos Cup will be in Chicago in early Nov 2006, so let's focus on how to make that tournament at that time more attractive to those with further to travel. I'm not sure that prizes/discounts alone are enough, although they're gonna help. (As indeed is the enhanced reputation of the organisational side of thngs that Galak's worked so hard on). The lead time we've got now does help immensely.

There's some good things happening with regard to making the 2006 CC into a weekend event running Fri eve through Sunday eve post tourney wind-down as opposed to a two day BB tournament. Get something organised for the Friday evening in terms of maybe an early evening meal, then onto a suitable bar to go onto and where later Fri arrivals could head to to meet up with the crowd. That hopefully will help bring in the outer-towners.

I'm going to make it a personal priority to attend the 2006 Chaos Cup. I think that after the support that GW Chicago are promising and the hard work that Galak's put in it'll be worth the trans-Atlantic trip (esp after reports from Valen after this year). It's probably (as in the last two years) simply too close to the Eurobowl to attract any significant Euro attendence, but if Gav returns and we can drum up 2 or 3 more for company, then that's something at least.

Whatever, I intend to be there ( it's a little embarassing that of all the US and Canadian coaches I've known online down the last few years the only ones that I've met personally are the ones that have attended the Blood Bowl ). Hope to meet as many as you as possible there, I'd love to see the CC attract a regular (realistic) 30-35 in future, and get on a lot of coaches must go at least once list as well as being on the wouldn't miss list of more coaches than at present.

I believe the structure is there, this is almost like a success waiting to happen, if we (as NAF members/tourney players) really pull out the stops in terms of trying to attend (and support Galak and GW Chicago's efforts) then CC 06 could really get rolling, achieve the kind of momentum (that it's been difficult to build so far) and have a true US Major worthy of the name for years to come.

GalakStarscraper - Nov 15, 2005 - 06:00 PM
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vt_doogie wrote:

My Thoughts on the numbers:
GenCon is in the SUMMER, when school is out of session.

I actually need to correct this statement. School is in session when GenCon was held in 2004 and 2005.

I'm not necessarily fully arguing that a school not in session date would not work better ... its just ... as I said ... I'm not the one picking the date ... however for my schedule that date works very well for me since I already run a tournament in May and August ... November gives me the 3 month spacing that let's me recover and my wife believe that its okay for me to attend another tournament.

Galak

Xtreme - Nov 15, 2005 - 08:43 PM
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Quote:

There's some good things happening with regard to making the 2006 CC into a weekend event running Fri eve through Sunday eve post tourney wind-down as opposed to a two day BB tournament. Get something organised for the Friday evening in terms of maybe an early evening meal, then onto a suitable bar to go onto and where later Fri arrivals could head to to meet up with the crowd. That hopefully will help bring in the outer-towners.

I would really like to see this idea go further. Would defenitly need some help from the local Chicago guys on this one. To add to the full weekend of the tournament I'm sure we could arrange the Pitch (terrain) painting converting workshop type thing for Friday afternoon before the dinner plans.

Really glad to hear youre going to try and make it though it will be good to meet you.

GalakStarscraper - Nov 15, 2005 - 11:14 PM
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Xtreme wrote:

Really glad to hear youre going to try and make it though it will be good to meet you.

Heck ... I know several folks that would make it just to meet Woody if you've never been able to go over to Europe.

I think we have our special guest.

Galak

SolarFlare - Nov 16, 2005 - 06:49 AM
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Love the ideas. Keep it going guys.

Could we add a "pre-registration" feature to the Chaos Cup website? That way, we could see who is planning to attend. I think this would have to be completely unofficial (since last minute events can always change travel plans), but I tend to think that interest generates interest. If you can look and see that a bunch of people are already coming, then maybe you'll think it is worth the trip.

Melifaxis - Nov 16, 2005 - 07:39 AM
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I could clone the registration pages from the Brouhaha (originally the Mannheim Massacre) if you'd like Galak, just let me know Smile

GalakStarscraper - Nov 16, 2005 - 07:47 AM
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Melifaxis wrote:

I could clone the registration pages from the Brouhaha (originally the Mannheim Massacre) if you'd like Galak, just let me know Smile

Zip them up and email them to me. I assume it needs some type of PHP/SQL backend to keep track so I'll probably need the database layouts as well.

Galak

majortusk - Nov 16, 2005 - 07:52 PM
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I just posted some pix from the Chaos Cup in the BBC Gallery

http://www.bloodbowlcentral.com/gallery/main.php

Valen - Nov 25, 2005 - 08:22 AM
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GalakStarscraper wrote:

Xtreme wrote:

Really glad to hear youre going to try and make it though it will be good to meet you.

Heck ... I know several folks that would make it just to meet Woody if you've never been able to go over to Europe.

I think we have our special guest.

Galak

OHHHH!!!!, so I am not a big enough name then, well sod you Laughing

, only joking mate, I actually agree that Woody may atract a few people, if only to see what color his ahir is this week Razz

Valen - Nov 25, 2005 - 08:22 AM
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And when are the rankings going to be up?

GalakStarscraper - Nov 25, 2005 - 05:58 PM
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Valen-S wrote:

And when are the rankings going to be up?

By end of this weekend.

Galak

GalakStarscraper - Nov 25, 2005 - 09:52 PM
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Reported results.

Galak

Old_Man_Monkey - Nov 25, 2005 - 10:15 PM
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Enough bickering amongst ourselves.... until we make the decision to hold an independent Chaos Cup, the point is moot... and yes, I believe this is possible though not preferable.....

As I said earlier Tom it appears that GW's commitment will remain strong throughout the year and if this is so, we should work to get as many coaches as possible to attend. Since you have chosen to be the TO and spokesperson to the community for this event, I would ask that you (1) stay in contact with GW throughout the year, (2) keep the forum apprised as to adds or deletions, and (3) find out those coaches in the local area willing to beat the bushes to bring out the league players....

I know this did not happen this year because there was no one at GW to coordinate with, but it will be a tough task without someone local to help find hotel, meeting spots, etc. GW should be doing this - the argument that "they've already spent $5,000" means little to me - didn't need it and would rather them spend time in promoting and having things like the prizes done and announced ahead of time.... (another incident of where some conversation with experienced TO's beforehand would have made a difference....)

Agree completely with Woody's clear reading of where we are now.... my only caveat is from the very real disappointment from the first CC to the second and GW's real failings in that regard.... Tom's word is enough now for me to return in '06 and hopefully find someone or some group in the area that will relieve Tom of so much effort (even if he does have a slight agenda... Wink

)

OMM

ps having JJ will not be of great impact - having 40 coaches having fun together will....

pps having some kind of registration or tally count through the CC site would certainly help, even if it's just to help the NAF monitor what's going on early in the game....

Valen - Nov 26, 2005 - 08:51 AM
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GalakStarscraper wrote:

Reported results.

Galak

I thought everyone was NAF at the torni Tom, yet I only have 4 registered games?

GalakStarscraper - Nov 26, 2005 - 09:40 AM
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Valen-S wrote:

GalakStarscraper wrote:

Reported results.

Galak

I thought everyone was NAF at the torni Tom, yet I only have 4 registered games?

Everyone was ... there was a difficult with 2 of the signups that CyberHare has notified me of the fix for now and I'll get the last 10 games that I was unable to report yesterday in the system this weekend.

Galak

Valen - Nov 26, 2005 - 09:45 AM
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Cool, cheers mate

SolarFlare - Nov 26, 2005 - 10:17 AM
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Tom:
Cal (Short_Man) signed up at the cup, and I just completed his profile for him. That should take care of his games.

By the way, my ranking scores didn't total correctly. Is that something the database will take care of automatically?

SolarFlare - Nov 29, 2005 - 07:25 AM
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Suggestions for prizes that might attract new players to Chaos Cup:

1. Rookie of the year - Awarded to the top finishing player who has never attended the tournament before. (For eligibility, put a checkbox on the tourney form asking if this is the player's first chaos cup.)
2. Halfling award - Awarded to the top finishing player under the age of 18. (No need to ask everyone's age. Just put on the tournament form a checkbox to ask if a player is eligible for halfling award.)

Both of these assume that the player has not finished first overall (to go with the idea of one prize per person...) Also, remember that it is not necessary to spend a lot of money on all of these extra prizes. Perhaps a nicely done certificate would do. But some sort of recognition (i.e., a chance to win something) for new/young players should encourage them to get out to the tournament and (hopefully) keep coming back.

GalakStarscraper - Nov 29, 2005 - 07:24 PM
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Those sound like good ideas Frank... thanks.

We were getting rid of the Fewest TDs allowed for next year.

Galak

Melifaxis - Mar 24, 2006 - 12:29 PM
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Just validating 11/04 and 11/05 as the dates still. Starting to look at flights.

avatar666 - Mar 24, 2006 - 01:07 PM
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Although GW has not updated the Chaos Cup website, I believe it has been changed to Oct 21st & 22nd. The League I am in plays at that Battle Bunker and they have this (see below) for their list of events going on. Not sure how we could light a fire under GW to make it known for sure.
I wish they would update the site as they didn't even update the info fronm the last one from November '05. Sad

Quote:

40K
February 11th & 12th: Iron Man Battleforce Painting Competition
March 4th & 5th: 1750 Point Tournament
May 27th & 28th: 2250 Point Campaign Weekend
July 1st & 2nd: 2000 Point Tournament
September 30th & October 1st: 2500 Point Tournament
November 25th & 26th: 4 Man Team Tournament 4000 Points Total
December 9th & 10th: 3000 Point Tournament

WFB
February 25th & 26th: 2250 Point Tournament
April 22nd & 23rd: 4 Man Team Tournament 4000 Points Total
May 6th & 7th: Iron Man Battalion Painting Competition
June 3rd & 4th: 2500 Point Tournament
July 8th & 9th: Battle for Blood Keep Mega Story Game
August 26th & 27th: 2750 Point Tournament
September 2nd & 3rd: Warhammer Celebration
October 7th & 8th: The Battle for Loristal Isle. Boat Battle & Campaign
November 4th & 5th: 2500 Point Campaign Weekend
December 16th & 17th: 3000 Point Tournament

LOTR
January 28th & 29th: 500 Point Tournament
February 18th & 19th: 2 Man Team Tournament 1000 Points Total
March 18th & 19th: A Shadow in the East Mega Story Game
April 29th & 30th: 750 Point Tournament
July 22nd & 23rd: 1000 Point Tournament
September 16th &17th: Iron Man 750 Point Painting Competition
October 28th & 29th: 1250 Point Tournament
November 11th & 12th: 1250 Point Campaign Weekend

Specialist
April 1st & 2nd: 5000 Epic Point Annual Tournament
June 24th & 25th: 3000 Point Annual Warmaster Tournament
July 15th & 16th: 2250 Point Annual Battlefleet Gothic Tournament
August 12th & 13th: 2000 Point Warhammer Ancients Tournament
October 21st & 22nd: 1 Million Crown Annual Bloodbowl Chaos Cup Tournament

Other:
May 13th & 14th: Golden Demon Painting Competition
June 10th & 11th: The Summer Bizarre Bazaar
August 19th & 20th: Bunker 48 Hours of Gaming Birthday Celebration
December 2nd & 3rd: The Winter Bizarre Bazaar

avatar666 - Mar 24, 2006 - 01:17 PM
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Update: I just called them up and I guess they still need to work out the details if it will be end of October or Beginning of November. Sad

Melifaxis - Apr 04, 2006 - 10:34 AM
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Thanks for that! I'll hold off on flights for now.

Jonny_P - Apr 05, 2006 - 12:15 PM
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I just called the bunker (630-426-0120) and they said 10/21 is the date.

But as the conversation went on, he followed it up with "um, it's not confirmed though. We'll have to check with Tom"

Now that I'm out of town I want to know too! I used to be 30 min drive to the bunker and now it's 6 hours!!!

Xtreme - Apr 05, 2006 - 02:21 PM
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I talked to Tom a month or so ago and he said it would be on 21st. Don't know how offical it is, but thats the date i'm betting it is.

Melifaxis - May 15, 2006 - 12:27 PM
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Update the date in the title to 10/21 & 10/22 and sticky this please...it's a major after all Very Happy

Jonny_P - May 15, 2006 - 05:05 PM
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Actually a new topic would be better and maybe close this one, since this one was started for last year's Chaos Cup.