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North America - What is the standard time schedule for games ???
MightyQ - May 01, 2006 - 06:45 AM
Post subject: What is the standard time schedule for games ???
I read on some NAF tournaments that the 4 mintues rule wont be in effect, but the games were only scheduled for 2 hours...
Now 8 4 minute turns is 32 mintues for each opponent, totalling 1 hour 4 mintues each half, final time 2 hours 8 minutes, not counting kickoff set ups, blitzes, perfect defenses, explaining each move and of course in the real life games, a bit of socializing...
I asked a few other people in other countries and they said their naf tournament games are shcedule for 2 hours 30 mintues, which makes more sense...
I recently played in a tournament where time was announced as it was getting closer to the 2 hour mark, 15 mintues, 10 mintues, 5 mintues. One, I think that isnt good as if the 4 mintues turn rules isnt in affect people can stall for the last 5 minutes...
In my game down 1-2 kicking off to my opponent, went to pick up the ball and as he we both heard 5 minutes left, he failed pick up and didnt use reroll because with my turn I couldn't score but get to ball with gfi's... As I did my turn and got 2 of my players to the ball's tackle zone, we heard 5 mintues left AGAIN... This time announcing and rushing affected our game greatly... If time wasnt announced and he failed the pick up and USED the reroll and failed, there could have been a chance for me to tie the game with 3 turns left...
I called the game and gave my opponent the victory due to the time calling issues because I felt it wasnt fair to both of us...
Opus - May 01, 2006 - 01:54 PM
Post subject:
My personal opinion is that even with the most experienced coaches playing, it is difficult to finish a match in 2 hours. Just considering strategy takes time, nevermind explaining moves, setting up players, etc.
The tournaments I've played in have allotted 2 hours 30 minutes for a match. That *usually* is sufficient - but not always.
Primesupreme - May 01, 2006 - 02:04 PM
Post subject:
I started getting ready for the lone tournament I was in by practicing with 2 minute turns. Because that is what the coordinator of the tournament implied. After a dozen games at two minutes 4 minutes seems like forever.
Trojan65 - May 01, 2006 - 05:58 PM
Post subject:
wow, yeah I've watched a game that was 2hours and change, I've never even remotely took that long. I usually finish a game of bloodbowl in just over an hour.... if you want strategy and what not, u don't need to spend 3 mintues thinking about it, 30s will probably do just fine. I like a shorter clock the 2 minute moves is prolly better IMO
MightyQ - May 01, 2006 - 06:31 PM
Post subject:
When playing online on OLBBL.com, 3rd edition, games took anywhere from 2-4 hours...
I started playing on Fumbbl.com last year to lear lrb and my games last an hour... One reason online fumbbl games are a bit faster then real life is your dont have to explain to your opponent each move and all the skills involved and you dont have to physically roll dice which takes time...
I have never seen an hour game of real life blood bowl unless one team is totally wiped off the field...
And not all of us are professional blood bowl players...
Clan_Skaven - May 01, 2006 - 08:34 PM
Post subject:
In my opinion anything loger than 2.5 hours is too long. People taking longer than 4 mins. in a turn are brutal, I hate it, cant stand playing people that take 6+ min. turns every turn....
"Do I block or.... Hmmmm, no I'll.... hmm.... , um wait whats this guys Strength? Ok I'll block, but wait, no 1st um.... , Ok ok I know this 1st....... DING! damn 4 mins. already, that was quick I'm not done yet , I need more time!"
Gimme a break !!!! Plan out your possible moves during your opponents turn, usually you should have a general idea what you want to do at the start of your turn. Honestly I rarely go over the 4 min. mark. I have no prob once in a while, but every turn?
I had a buddy that sometimes used to take sometimes 10-15 min. turns!
If you can not get most of your turns done in under 4 mins. maybe BloodBowl is not your game. (Maybe you should pick up 'tiddley winks' instead!
Rod.
Doubleskulls - May 01, 2006 - 09:13 PM
Post subject:
Most tournament games are a little quicker than normal ones because you aren't concerned about any of the meta-game stuff (no gate, handicaps, recording SPPs, manipulating who scores your TDs etc)
One problem with tournament games is that you don't want most people waiting too long for other people to finish.
I once had a tourney game finish in 40mins 
6 turns of riot helped
Spazzfist - May 02, 2006 - 05:56 AM
Post subject:
You also have to remember that although you may indicate how long each turn may be (be it 2 or 4 minutes) then you have to consider the possibility that the first roll may result ina turnover!
"Okay, my turn, and will block with the troll on the goblin. AAARGH! Triple Skulls!!!"
IMO 2.5 hours is often too long. Especially for tournaments where people still have a long distance to travel after the tournament is over. Keeping it short and sweet and being considerate of other people's need to get home to their jobs and their families to me is more important than giving the slowpokes a little more time.
Spazzfist - May 02, 2006 - 05:57 AM
Post subject:
Doubleskulls wrote:
I once had a tourney game finish in 40mins
6 turns of riot helped
45 minutes was my record, and that was without a riot!
juergen - May 02, 2006 - 06:14 AM
Post subject:
From my tourney expierence as player and organisier I would recommend 2h30min per game and NOT enforce the 4min/turn rule. Why?
- people travel a lot of distance to meet friends, have fun and play BB (in about 90% in that order). puttin them in a hurry just to finish games takes away from their fun. Let them have time for a short half time break (smoke a cigarette, loosen up their feet,....)
- Some turns end in 10sec. Doubleskulls RR doubleskulls. So if you want the 4min average the next turn should be about 8mins - doesn't work. Furthormore if the game is fluid and fast there are always moments where it gets complicated - why penalise them in this situation when the game is fast everywhere else
- People are more relaxed with the extra 30min (option 2h15min)
- it makes your timetable a little more flexible IMO. Although the overall day is longer, if all people are finishing within 2h they don't need the long break and you can cut away time there.
- At Schnitzelbowl we had about 95% of the games finished in time (2h30). With 2h I think only 75% of the games could have been finished - and taking away the fun for the guy that looses because of that
- Don't use the stop watch and say you have 10sek left. If they are in half 2 turn 8 let them have their extra 5min - maybe a little more if the time table allows it (if they agree on their shorter lunch break why not? They have to know how much break they need in between games. Of course don't let your schedule get behind just because of it - but entering the final result and klickin "new round" doesn't take long
So much from my expierence from our first organised BB tourney, Schnitzelbowl I
Clan_Skaven - May 02, 2006 - 08:50 AM
Post subject:
Spazzfist wrote:
You also have to remember that although you may indicate how long each turn may be (be it 2 or 4 minutes) then you have to consider the possibility that the first roll may result ina turnover!
"Okay, my turn, and will block with the troll on the goblin. AAARGH! Triple Skulls!!!"
IMO 2.5 hours is often too long. Especially for tournaments where people still have a long distance to travel after the tournament is over. Keeping it short and sweet and being considerate of other people's need to get home to their jobs and their families to me is more important than giving the slowpokes a little more time.
I agree 2.5 hours is still to long for tourney play I'm just saying thats the maximum length of time I go. (I still prefer under 2 hours)
Lets not forget the races involved as well. For example you can almost always bet a game between Dwarf vs Chaos Dwarf, will take longer than a game between Skaven vs Wood Elf.
Rod.
MightyQ - May 02, 2006 - 09:28 AM
Post subject:
I was just at a NAF tournament where on the first day games were allowed to go into break time, on the 2nd which was the playoffs, they weren't... When time was called in round one of the playoffs more then 50% of the games were not completed...
Blood Bowl is a turn based game, not everyone is fast... But when you have more then 50% of the games being stopped and not completing, in my opinion they are not true games... There are so many times games are won or lost on turn 8...
Clan_Skaven - May 02, 2006 - 10:40 AM
Post subject:
MightyQ wrote:
I was just at a NAF tournament where on the first day games were allowed to go into break time, on the 2nd which was the playoffs, they weren't... When time was called in round one of the playoffs more then 50% of the games were not completed...
Blood Bowl is a turn based game, not everyone is fast... But when you have more then 50% of the games being stopped and not completing, in my opinion they are not true games... There are so many times games are won or lost on turn 8...
This is true , but you have to set a time limmit at some point, I had an oppent at a tourney that took forever! the game to my left was on turn 7 of the 1st half , the game to my right was on turn 8 of the first half, our game was on turn 2 (just started turn 2) he was planning every possible place each payer could go (he'd put dice out on multiple spots to show all the various locations/posibilities before he could decide where he would go. That was just for one modle (multply that by 11)
some people in my opinion are not suited to play in tournies (tourney play & league play are two different mindsets) just like speed chess vs regular chess!
In a tourney if my game is stopped way before the final turn due to time! Well sure I'll be pissed espeacially if I get a loss (cause I know the long game is never me, I'm not a "Umm,.... hmmm,......maybe this, or ,.....hmmmm..... ect ect ect, type of player" If you are I'd say start practicing with the 4 min timer before you attend tournies! Remember people are often travling by car as long as 10+hour drives, so to hold up the entire tourney cause one guy doesn't know wheather to Block with number 7 first or pick up the ball with number 12 first is ridiculous!
I'm not trying to drive people away from tourney's, but if you can't play fast & are going to get upset cause your games end up getting stopped b4 they are done. And you think it would be more fair to let you finnish your full game at a cost of the entire tourney being held up just for you? Then I ask if thats what you think, that you stay home.
I'm not directing at at any individuals, I'm just saying in general.
Rod.
KarlLagerbottom - May 02, 2006 - 11:35 AM
Post subject:
The tourney that MightyQ is talking about is this past weekend's New World Cup. The games on Day 2 were started early and were done on a strict 2-hour time limit to facilitate the tourney ending early enough to get the Canadians on the road so they could get home at a somewhat decent time.
That said...I sincerely beleive that the outcome of the tourney was effected by the sheer amount of games that were ended early. The DC Team is very good and they have a very competitive local league, but the Champs were decided by a tie-breaker when final round games still had turns to play.
I also would not want to turn people away from travelling to tournies, but there are two sides to the coin. If people don't want to travel to play 5 complete games in a reasonable amount of time...then maybe they should stay home.
The point of the tourney is not really to determine a winner...it's to create a more meaningful reason to play the game. PLAYING the game being paramount...lets just play at a pace where there can be a balance between keeping a schedule and enjoying the games.
My two cents...
Hoshi_Komi - May 02, 2006 - 12:19 PM
Post subject:
KarlLagerbottom wrote:
The DC Team is very good and they have a very competitive local league, but the Champs were decided by a tie-breaker when final round games still had turns to play.
I think the championship games shoulda been allowed to play into the breaks, just like the previous day.
but the DC team finished all their games but two (both by the canadian) and it looked like he shoulda won one if allowed to goto full time and the other one looked like a solid tie.
Paul - May 02, 2006 - 01:24 PM
Post subject:
Geze, like the DC team has anything to complain about 
2 Hours should be plenty of time to play a game. In a few rare cases I've had games go longer than that. Usually there is an hour break scheduled between each round, so if the players understand that they are eating into their break if they play longer than the 2 hours, I say let em finish.
I do appreciate that the Sunday games were stopped on time though. I didn't get home until about 1:30 am. If games were allowed to go on an extra half hour on the sunday, thats anohter hour (or more of you're playing a 6 round tournament)
Clan_Skaven - May 02, 2006 - 01:42 PM
Post subject:
As I stated before, if your going to take longer than 4 mins evary turn then I suggest in your home league or with your friends you should strt to practice with the timer!
If you don't want to use the timer or even with the timer you still take longer than 4 mins. (IMO) you should't be attending tourneys. It is because of slow players that people get screwed out of games & bad moods are created ect ect.
I'm not trying to come across as negative, but if you want to solve this problem its simple!
1) 'Slow players' learn to speed up for tourney play
2) 'Slow players' if you can't speed up or refuse to try, then don't bother showing up!
Rod.
(I know I'm gonna get alot of slack for this, buts just cause u know I'm right 
)
MightyQ - May 02, 2006 - 01:52 PM
Post subject:
KarlLagerbottom wrote:
The tourney that MightyQ is talking about is this past weekend's New World Cup. The games on Day 2 were started early and were done on a strict 2-hour time limit to facilitate the tourney ending early enough to get the Canadians on the road so they could get home at a somewhat decent time.
That said...I sincerely beleive that the outcome of the tourney was effected by the sheer amount of games that were ended early. The DC Team is very good and they have a very competitive local league, but the Champs were decided by a tie-breaker when final round games still had turns to play.
I also would not want to turn people away from travelling to tournies, but there are two sides to the coin. If people don't want to travel to play 5 complete games in a reasonable amount of time...then maybe they should stay home.
The point of the tourney is not really to determine a winner...it's to create a more meaningful reason to play the game. PLAYING the game being paramount...lets just play at a pace where there can be a balance between keeping a schedule and enjoying the games.
My two cents...
Well there were a few other things about the tournament that i felt was totally wrong but wont get into as I am still kind of worked up about it...
The tie breaker is one... On Saturday, he mentioned that the wins/loses would determine seedings for the playoff rounds, making a comment, joking or not, he said you can throw games if you want to play a certain team in the first round...
Sunday he then says totals from saturday which determined the seedings, was the tie breakers 
Tie breakers should have been announce and determined before playing... A good tie breaker could have been the point totals from the games that we were using... Because having 2 teams tied 2/2/2 and one winning based on the previous days win/loses was sad, then in the championship both teams tied 2/2/2 and DC got the tie breaker because of their wins on Saturday...
I found out after round 3 that he had my game totals in wrong, I was 2-1 with 150 points, he had me in at 1-2 with 100, some how game 2 was recorded wrong which could have meant I might have played a lower point team in round three then I should have because he had me at 40 points total, when I was at 90...
Also too me there was no real World Cup winner, when the Canadiens got split up and with all the ties...
We also we scedule for 3 rounds with breaks from 10-6 on Sunday, we started an hour ealier, breaks were cut in half and one less round was played, how much time did they want to save ???
Clan_Skaven - May 02, 2006 - 02:40 PM
Post subject:
Anyone who doesn't give thier all to win (purposely throws a game to play a lesser opponent next round) IMO is a sad gaming idavidual. Succeeding is that important that you would perposly throw a game to get an easier playoff seed next round?
If so GIMME A BREAK!
I'm almost glad I didn't attend the tourney now if there was this kind of crying going on.
Rod
MightyQ - May 02, 2006 - 02:45 PM
Post subject:
Clan-Skaven wrote:
Anyone who doesn't give thier all to win (purposely throws a game to play a lesser opponent next round) IMO is a sad gaming idavidual. Succeeding is that important that you would perposly throw a game to get an easier playoff seed next round?
If so GIMME A BREAK!
I'm almost glad I didn't attend the tourney now if there was this kind of crying going on.
Rod
As far as I know everyone gave their all... And I dont think anyone threw their games on purpose... The statement was made by the organizer, most likely in a joking mannor... The fact he made that comment and then used the game totals from Saturday as tie breakers I felt was wrong...
KarlLagerbottom - May 02, 2006 - 03:04 PM
Post subject:
gken1 wrote:
KarlLagerbottom wrote:
The DC Team is very good and they have a very competitive local league, but the Champs were decided by a tie-breaker when final round games still had turns to play.
I think the championship games shoulda been allowed to play into the breaks, just like the previous day.
but the DC team finished all their games but two (both by the canadian) and it looked like he shoulda won one if allowed to goto full time and the other one looked like a solid tie.
Actually...my game with JB had two turns left...the ball was on the ground...and he had 5 WEs left. Besides the fact...I think both of us are pretty deliberate players and our first half was a long one, but the portion of the 2nd half that we did play was rushed.
Oh well...again I'm not saying that we would have won, but I am saying that we couldhave won. I tie that up by some desperate Gutter Magic, and that breaks the tie in the round...
KarlLagerbottom - May 02, 2006 - 03:21 PM
Post subject:
MightyQ wrote:
We also we scedule for 3 rounds with breaks from 10-6 on Sunday, we started an hour ealier, breaks were cut in half and one less round was played, how much time did they want to save ???
BTW...we were also scheduled to start at 11 AM on Saturday and did not start Game 1 until nearly 12:30. Sure there were extenuating circumstances and Brian had to make some "Executive Decisions" on the fly...but before anyone (ROD) starts to make hard line statements like "Play fast or stay home"...maybe all of the facts should be gathered.
Also, anyone who had planned on making this event...and then had to pull out for more important reasons (Because again...this is just afterall a game.) maybe those folks should realize that had they shown-up...the tourney could have started on time...there would have been Canadian representation...perhaps all of the games would have been completed...and perhaps the controversy over the format of the tourney would hae been a non-point.
EDIT:Funny...looking at this post from Feb 26...you might think that someone had an idea that tiebreakers could be an issue.
http://www.bloodbowl.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=2863&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=105
KarlLagerbottom wrote:
Brian-
Quick question...how do you plan on resolving ties in the standings? What is the oreder of the tie breakers? (Assuming that there are multiple tiebreakers.)
-Rob
MightyQ - May 02, 2006 - 03:29 PM
Post subject:
Clan-Skaven wrote:
I'm almost glad I didn't attend the tourney now if there was this kind of crying going on.
Rod
What team would you have been on ???
Hoshi_Komi - May 02, 2006 - 03:45 PM
Post subject:
KarlLagerbottom wrote:
Actually...my game with JB had two turns left...the ball was on the ground...and he had 5 WEs left. Besides the fact...I think both of us are pretty deliberate players and our first half was a long one, but the portion of the 2nd half that we did play was rushed.
Oh well...again I'm not saying that we would have won, but I am saying that we couldhave won. I tie that up by some desperate Gutter Magic, and that breaks the tie in the round...
true, but all he had to do to win was pick up the ball with a sure hands player with the other elves surrounding him. I don't think you coulda pulled that off.
Clan_Skaven - May 02, 2006 - 03:57 PM
Post subject:
MightyQ wrote:
Clan-Skaven wrote:
I'm almost glad I didn't attend the tourney now if there was this kind of crying going on.
Rod
What team would you have been on ???
I would have been with team Canada but due to lay from work it was not possible.
Rod.
jware30 - May 02, 2006 - 04:09 PM
Post subject:
Clan-Skaven wrote:
I'm almost glad I didn't attend the tourney now if there was this kind of crying going on.
Rod
There wasn't.
Yes, some issues remain to be worked out with the team format, but is anyone surprised? Has this been done before?
I am sorry the Canadians were split up (Hell I'm broken up over it, especially as we-Team New England- got Paul, who went 0-0-5 )
I think my first game went into the break, my fault, first tournament game in a couple of years and I was nervous and frazzled.
And my last game finished on with 5 minutes to spare, but I did have to prompt my opponent to speed up a little.
But had a blast and looking forward to bring a full NY team next time.
Are we doing this yearly?
Paul - May 02, 2006 - 04:15 PM
Post subject:
Its just a tournament. The tie breaker format worked, DC should get some sort of credit for their performance on day one. They couldn't get any home-ice advantage in the game, so letting them advance if they were tied in the individual games in the semi-final/fimal rounds is fair with me. They were clearly the best team there (after Canada was split up) and they should have won.
For the next event, hopefully we can get enough teams out there so we don't have to worry about ties. Ideally, we would have had 6 teams of 5 there, each team plays every other team (giving you 5 rounds) the team with the most points after those five rounds is the winner.
Rod would have been a great addition to Team Canada too. I would have been playing Dwarfs then cause he can't play anything but Skaven (he doesn't really have any skills as a blood bowl coach to try anything new and be successful) and I would have done way better against all those Chaos Dwarfs, Orcs and Norse I played.
Paul - May 02, 2006 - 04:19 PM
Post subject:
jware30 wrote:
I am sorry the Canadians were split up (Hell I'm broken up over it, especially as we-Team New England- got Paul, who went 0-0-5
)
yea, cause the rest of Team New England was spectacular there 
Quote:
Are we doing this yearly?
I think thats the plan, with the location moving. With the World Cup next year though we might want to look into holding off on it for a year so the people to travel can worry about putting all their finances towards that one tournament. That being said, with only 8 people on each National Team there will be lots of people who will not be going and will have a chance to play in the New World Cup. I guess its something to be discussed by the orginizing committe. (Its always fun to see Brian talk to himslef in those meetings )
KarlLagerbottom - May 02, 2006 - 08:07 PM
Post subject:
gken1 wrote:
KarlLagerbottom wrote:
Actually...my game with JB had two turns left...the ball was on the ground...and he had 5 WEs left. Besides the fact...I think both of us are pretty deliberate players and our first half was a long one, but the portion of the 2nd half that we did play was rushed.
Oh well...again I'm not saying that we would have won, but I am saying that we couldhave won. I tie that up by some desperate Gutter Magic, and that breaks the tie in the round...
true, but all he had to do to win was pick up the ball with a sure hands player with the other elves surrounding him. I don't think you coulda pulled that off.
Nope...that's definately true...it was going to be tough, but I would have loved to have those two turns to see if the Gutter Runners could pull it off.
Besides, if there was a double 1 in there somewhere for the elves...then the situation could have been drastically different than what you describe...the ball might have even still been on the ground.
TBH...I mentioned that more in support of my Philadelphia teammate than to suggest that we would have won. Given that Cam was our Canadian Import for the tourney and he took a couple of bullets for us...I'm not sure what our record would have looked like if all went as originally planned.
EDIT: I also want to go on the record as saying that the tourney was a blast. I had a lot of fun, and love the format. Unfortunately Brian was thrown a curve when the surplus players didn't make it to round-out the teams...however, he did a great job in keeping the event smoothly run and enjoyable.
Watch out for Team Philadelphia next time!
garth - May 02, 2006 - 08:18 PM
Post subject:
Clan-Skaven wrote:
"Do I block or.... Hmmmm, no I'll.... hmm.... , um wait whats this guys Strength? Ok I'll block, but wait, no 1st um.... , Ok ok I know this 1st....... DING! damn 4 mins. already, that was quick I'm not done yet , I need more time!"
Hmmm, sounds like me... 'cause I'm dumb... 
Clan-Skaven wrote:
If you can not get most of your turns done in under 4 mins. maybe BloodBowl is not your game. (Maybe you should pick up 'tiddley winks' instead!
Now that's not nice.
Hoshi_Komi - May 02, 2006 - 08:25 PM
Post subject:
I actually had a player go take a DUMP during a game that got called for time...he was a real poor sport and purposely took more time when it got close so that I didn't have a chance to pull the winning score...THIS WAS AT GENCON!
Clan_Skaven - May 03, 2006 - 01:28 AM
Post subject:
garth wrote:
Clan-Skaven wrote:
"Do I block or.... Hmmmm, no I'll.... hmm.... , um wait whats this guys Strength? Ok I'll block, but wait, no 1st um.... , Ok ok I know this 1st....... DING! damn 4 mins. already, that was quick I'm not done yet , I need more time!"
Hmmm, sounds like me... 'cause I'm dumb...
Clan-Skaven wrote:
If you can not get most of your turns done in under 4 mins. maybe BloodBowl is not your game. (Maybe you should pick up 'tiddley winks' instead!
Now that's not nice.
I play RATS you expect me to be nice!? 
I'm talking tourney play, take as long as you want outside tournies just as long as I'm not the opponent...
Rod
Clan_Skaven - May 03, 2006 - 01:30 AM
Post subject:
Paul wrote:
Its just a tournament. The tie breaker format worked, DC should get some sort of credit for their performance on day one. They couldn't get any home-ice advantage in the game, so letting them advance if they were tied in the individual games in the semi-final/fimal rounds is fair with me. They were clearly the best team there (after Canada was split up) and they should have won.
For the next event, hopefully we can get enough teams out there so we don't have to worry about ties. Ideally, we would have had 6 teams of 5 there, each team plays every other team (giving you 5 rounds) the team with the most points after those five rounds is the winner.
Rod would have been a great addition to Team Canada too. I would have been playing Dwarfs then cause he can't play anything but Skaven (he doesn't really have any skills as a blood bowl coach to try anything new and be successful) and I would have done way better against all those Chaos Dwarfs, Orcs and Norse I played.
Apparently you don't have any skill to try anything new as well mr 0-5!
Rod.
Clan_Skaven - May 03, 2006 - 01:32 AM
Post subject:
garth wrote:
Clan-Skaven wrote:
"Do I block or.... Hmmmm, no I'll.... hmm.... , um wait whats this guys Strength? Ok I'll block, but wait, no 1st um.... , Ok ok I know this 1st....... DING! damn 4 mins. already, that was quick I'm not done yet , I need more time!"
Hmmm, sounds like me... 'cause I'm dumb...
Clan-Skaven wrote:
If you can not get most of your turns done in under 4 mins. maybe BloodBowl is not your game. (Maybe you should pick up 'tiddley winks' instead!
Now that's not nice.
Garth your not dumb! how can you be dumb your a school teacher for heck sake!
Do we need a round of KOOM BI AH here Garth? Need a hug buddy?
Rod
CyberHare - May 03, 2006 - 05:30 AM
Post subject:
Apologies to all if the format this past weekend was a little up in the air. Things had to be changed on the fly and a few casualties were expected. This was in all respects a learning experience for everyone involved and I know that I'm glad to have had the chance to run a team event before jumping straight into the World Cup. There are certainly differences in the formats that need specific attention. Not the least of which is what happens if all the teams don't show up.
Clan_Skaven - May 03, 2006 - 10:45 AM
Post subject:
CyberHare wrote:
Apologies to all if the format this past weekend was a little up in the air. Things had to be changed on the fly and a few casualties were expected. This was in all respects a learning experience for everyone involved and I know that I'm glad to have had the chance to run a team event before jumping straight into the World Cup. There are certainly differences in the formats that need specific attention. Not the least of which is what happens if all the teams don't show up.
Nah no need to appauligise, its sounds like u did a great job fixing a last minute problem, my comlaint is from what was sounding like people crying about tie breaker rules & slow players thinkin tournies shouldn't have time restraints
(now had they cried about scoring rules, I woulda joined em...... Don't get me started on 2005 DB when I was the best record of my table with2-2-2 & finnished 4th behind three people at 2-1-3, or 'no offence Paul, but 0-5 should always be behind any other outcome of 5 games , 0-1-4, 1-0-4 ect ect) ..... but thats a whole other jar of squiggs! 
Rod
Clan_Skaven - May 03, 2006 - 10:55 AM
Post subject:
gken1 wrote:
I actually had a player go take a DUMP during a game that got called for time...he was a real poor sport and purposely took more time when it got close so that I didn't have a chance to pull the winning score...THIS WAS AT GENCON!
My opponent at GENCON was the guy placing out like 9 dice on the board for each possible destination his players could go ( do that for all 11 players) then he takes a phone call in the middle of his turn (bad enuff if it was my turn) but no game gets held up for the call. Then by the time we reach halftime theres people starting to pack up & the time warnings are being issued, so being behind I start playing very fast now not to get ripped off from time & make costly rushed errors. We just made it to the final time slot, but would I want to play this guy in tourney play again? (hmmm, you again umm , anywhere I can get a root canal?)
(oh the other thing this guy had no idea what "Pitch Invasion" meant! .....
If you don't know the rules thats another reasson to stay at home, till you do.) "Whats Pitch Invasion mean?...."
Rod.
SolarFlare - May 03, 2006 - 11:59 AM
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As a deliberate player myself (or Xtreme would say SLOOOOW), I make it a goal to finish all of my turns and games quickly when I go to a tourney. It really is not fair to my opponents if they do not get their chances (i.e., turns). (At my last 3 tourneys, I have finished every turn of every game.)
On a separate note, players need to be willing to finish their games when they are getting creamed. Most tournaments have separate prizes for most casualties and most touchdowns. If I'm getting pounded, I tell my opponent to go for as many TDs or CAS as he can get. I don't make it easier for him on purpose, but I'm going to give him the opportunity (i.e., turns) to run up the score.
Clan-Skaven wrote:
If you don't know the rules thats another reasson to stay at home, till you do.
On the other hand, I would rather a player come out to a tourney (especially if he has no one else to play against) even if they are still learning the game. Yeah, it might not make for the most fascinating game for me at that moment, but it will hopefully get them playing and build the community. Now if a player hasn't learned what this "block" thing is all about, then that's another matter. But not knowing a kickoff result is hardly reason to stay home, imo.
MightyQ - May 03, 2006 - 12:09 PM
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Clan-Skaven wrote:
I understand now, only your complaints matter, not anyone else's
On your comment abour Pitch Invasion, I have been playing Blood Bowl When 3rd Edition was released... Played online on OLBBL.COM (500+ games), was a commissioner there also and just started recently playing LRB and on fumbbl (140+ games)... I have been to 3 naf tournaments, playing on fumbbl to learn the rule differences going from 3rd to lrb... I had to stop playing on OLBBL because of the difference in the rules... And going to the tournaments recently found out the little quirks with fumbbl's client that is different from the rules...
Even at the tournament people had the lrb rule book open mainly to the kickoff table as we all dont know it by heart like you do
I have a printed copy of Living rule book 4, but mine seems to be missing a few things... Didnt know kick skill was optional... Never played anyone in lrb that had Break Tackle yet until the tournament, didnt know u got to roll 1st then decide if u wanted to use it or not... Seeing things for the first time, learning from the game your in, also takes so time when you ask the people to explain...
I think things might go a bit faster if teams weren't given skills between rounds and just played with the base rookie team against everyone... Because alot of it is visual and wouldnt have to ask each and every time who has what before doing your actions...
Jonny_P - Jul 11, 2006 - 01:21 PM
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Why not 2 hour games and allow players to finish in their break to reach the end of 2nd half. As long as that game doenst take the whole break. If it does, the T.O. should just call it as he sees fit.
Final game should be played with Overtime as long as it takes.
If you feel your opponent is stalling tell the T.O.
If your opponent doesn't know the rules then he shouldn't be there. New players are encourages, but a tournament should NOT be their first game. Maybe 4th or 5th game where they may not be experts but they undersand the game mechanics at least. Taking phone calls (emergency only should be allowed) or taking a dump during a game is not good sportsmanship. Just hold it til break or put a cork in it!
2 hours is fine as long as you dont BS the whole time. A quick lookup of the rules does not take a long time too. I have never had a problem and I'm not the quickest player.
I've been playing this game for years and I still have to look at the kickoff results.....who cares it takes 3 seconds?!?!?
Just my opinions...
GalakStarscraper - Jul 11, 2006 - 09:46 PM
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jpeletis wrote:
Why not 2 hour games and allow players to finish in their break to reach the end of 2nd half.
As someone who has run tournaments ... I'll tell you the answer is that it really screws with the entry of the results and figuring out the next round.
When I sit down to enter results ... I want all the games right there ... not be missing one think I have all the match-ups figured out and then discover that Joe and Bobby just finished their game ... no thanks.
I'm a fast player ... but I don't mind playing slower players as long as between us we average the time limit.
My favorite time story is when I played NAF's 1st president John Lewis at the Underworld. He kept looking at the game next to us and telling me that I was playing too slow and that I needed to play faster ... this continued the whole game. We managed to finish at about the same time as the game next to us. We got up from the table and noticed that everyone else was just starting the 2nd half. The game next to us had had a 6 turn riot.
I really would love to go back and play that game over ... I couldn't easily tell John's Gutter Runners from his other players as he used 2nd edition Skaven (base ring colours highly recommended when all your figs look the same). And because of the speed we were playing I made a critical error blitzing his ball carrier that was ST 3 and not an ST 2 Gutter Runner like I thought .. this meant 2 dice his favour when I could have run up a friend for an assist for a one dice block ... this would end up giving John the TD he needed to win.
I tell this story for the simple reason that no matter the opponent I've faced I've not found an issue with time and the one time in a tournament I tried to play fast ... I really screwed up. So try and be patient with your opponent but I would suggest the follwoing ...get your tournament organizer to call out 30 minute intervals is my advice. If the first 30 is called and you are just finishing turn 1 or 2 ... ask your opponent if he needs a timer (or be the bigger man if you are the slow player and ask for one for yourself). You might lose some sportsmanship points but heck ... any more from my tournaments those don't count for 1st or 2nd anymore anyway and I've seen a lot of tournaments go this route.
And the other lessons is that I shouldn't type when I'm about to fall asleep at the laptop ... I really ramble badly ... sorry.
Galak
GalakStarscraper - Jul 11, 2006 - 09:56 PM
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gken1 wrote:
I actually had a player go take a DUMP during a game that got called for time...he was a real poor sport and purposely took more time when it got close so that I didn't have a chance to pull the winning score...THIS WAS AT GENCON!
And that guy was really a major d*ck ... honestly.
He got lasts in sportsmanships from all his opponents and he dropped out of the tournament after 3 games and DEMANDED the special figure that I was giving for players that FINISHED all 5 games. I gave him the figure just so that he would get the f**k out of my tournament and hopefully not come back every again. If he does and he pulls that stunt again ... I'll be sure to tell him where he can stick his demands.
Every GenCon I get one prima donna for some reason. Last year it was him ... 2 years ago it was some loser who didn't like that I didn't put his team up for best painted and then got upset when he asked me to tell him why not and I pointed out the clear painting flaws and then he got REAL pissed off, dropped out without telling me, and later was discovered to have given me a $1.50 generic ticket for the tournament instead of the $13.50 to actually play (butt munch) ... and 3 years ago it was a group of 3 players who all quit after losing in the first round who told me they had better things to do than play in my tournament and then came back to try to tell me (ie sit and chat) how horrible their other things they did were and how much they wished they had stayed in the tournament while I'm trying to get the final round of the tournament ready to play.
But its part of the fun of running a tournament ... and Ken I'm really sorry you drew last year's prima donna. I apologize to anyone who draws this short straw at GenCon.
Oh man ... okay going to bed ... glad there are no we hate the LRB 5.0 discussions tonight and TBB is down .. that could be bad.
Galak
Jonny_P - Jul 12, 2006 - 12:27 AM
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Great stories Tom. They all made me laugh. Sorry for you they actually happened.
So basically you are saying either say 2 hours or 2.5 hours per game, but then when time is called it's over, or do you allow a "last wraps" or "bottom inning". No finishing into break.
What about the final game, would you allow that full OT or same time limit as normal games?
I like the calling out every half hour too. That will help.
GalakStarscraper - Jul 12, 2006 - 07:34 AM
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jpeletis wrote:
So basically you are saying either say 2 hours or 2.5 hours per game, but then when time is called it's over, or do you allow a "last wraps" or "bottom inning". No finishing into break.
What about the final game, would you allow that full OT or same time limit as normal games?
I like the calling out every half hour too. That will help.
If your tournament schedule allows 2.5 games that's great ... mine never do. I run all my tournaments 2 hours a game period. Now when I say 2 hours I start the clock running basically after I have assigned all the matches and gotten everyone sat down so that everyone has the full 2 hours (and I kick folks in the butt if they are slow starting (we have announced start times for a reason).
So what does that mean ... it normally means that if a round is scheduled from 9-11 that I'll start handing out game assignments at 8:53 and the round might not finish until 11:05 if it was 9:05 until everyone got going.
That just means the break between rounds is 5 minutes shorter. I don't allow games to go past the 2 hour point.
In the final round of the tournament I have been know to allow that to go past 2 hours if the match for 1st and 2nd is not finished (see the 2005 Chaos Cup) (which only ran a few minutes past 2 hours ... so not too bad). However as SolarFlare will testify I was on that game like a hawk for time and keep telling him to play faster (and he still won ... good focus there Frank). If the game for 1st and 2nd was running slow (ie at 1 hour they are in turn 5 of the 1st half) ... I want that game to finish ... and would have ZERO issue putting them on a 4 minute timer to get that match done and standing directly over them to push them to finish if need be.
Galak
Jonny_P - Jul 12, 2006 - 09:05 AM
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Thanks for the tips. I supposed being strict on time is neccessary since the results of 1 game do affect the rest of the pairings. I will probably stick with 2 hours for each since that has been pretty successful in the tournaments I have played in the past.