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NAF World Cup - NAFWC 2015

Alkaline13 - Dec 05, 2011 - 12:49 AM
Post subject: NAFWC 2015
While everyone still have this past NAFWC on their minds.. I want to begin to gather some basic information in regards to the 2015 NAFWC event. If you could, please take a few minutes and read over / fill out this form to help me out!

This basic form will help me find out where most people would like to see the next world cup take place. In addition to location, it will give me an idea of addition information I will need to look up for individuals who are attending.

Thank you very much in advance - I appreciate it!

Click here to help!
Doubleskulls - Dec 05, 2011 - 02:48 AM
Post subject: RE: NAFWC 2015
You may want to ask about most convenient time of year and the amount of notice people would need in order to go.
Alkaline13 - Dec 05, 2011 - 02:49 AM
Post subject: RE: NAFWC 2015
At this point, I'm wondering which city has their interest. My intention is to make a much more specific form after I have a general idea of where people would want to travel to.

The second form will have time of year, activities outside of the tournament, more detailed travel arrangements, and more.

Thanks for the input -- keep it coming!
Mepmuff - Dec 05, 2011 - 04:53 AM
Post subject: RE: NAFWC 2015
the following question was marked required:
      Quote:
Which MAJOR tournaments have you attended? *

I lied and said I've attended The Southern Wastes Scrimmage...
Alkaline13 - Dec 05, 2011 - 05:20 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: NAFWC 2015
      Mepmuff wrote:
the following question was marked required:
      Quote:
Which MAJOR tournaments have you attended? *

I lied and said I've attended The Southern Wastes Scrimmage...


How dare you! Rolling Eyes Razz
Sebco - Dec 05, 2011 - 05:58 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: NAFWC 2015
I also lied and said I've attended the Southern Wastes Scrimmage as it was mandatory to select a major tournament (I've attended the 2 NAF WC but no more major tournaments).
Doubleskulls - Dec 05, 2011 - 05:58 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: NAFWC 2015
      Alkaline13 wrote:
after I have a general idea of where people would want to travel to.


Having thought about this for an Australian tournament we worked out 3 factors we thought mattered most for location.

1) Accessibility. e.g. are there direct flights from European capitals?
2) "Pull" - is it somewhere people would be likely to visit in its own right - i.e. how big a tourist destination is it
3) Organisation - is it somewhere with enough local support to actually make it happen. Depending on how experienced the team is in setting up large events (I reckon you'd need to allow for 200-300) then you may find it quite hard to organise event in a state or city you don't live in or know well.

I suspect for the US #3 is going to be a bigger factor than it is for the Australians since more cities get through 1 & 2.
Alkaline13 - Dec 05, 2011 - 06:07 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: NAFWC 2015
      Doubleskulls wrote:
      Alkaline13 wrote:
after I have a general idea of where people would want to travel to.


Having thought about this for an Australian tournament we worked out 3 factors we thought mattered most for location.

1) Accessibility. e.g. are there direct flights from European capitals?
2) "Pull" - is it somewhere people would be likely to visit in its own right - i.e. how big a tourist destination is it
3) Organisation - is it somewhere with enough local support to actually make it happen. Depending on how experienced the team is in setting up large events (I reckon you'd need to allow for 200-300) then you may find it quite hard to organise event in a state or city you don't live in or know well.

I suspect for the US #3 is going to be a bigger factor than it is for the Australians since more cities get through 1 & 2.


All valid points and all things for me to take into account once more people answer the survey Wink if people are most interested in a US city, then forming the right team of organizers will be key -- if the majority of people aren't interested in a US city, then me worrying will be a moot point.
Doubleskulls - Dec 05, 2011 - 06:40 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: NAFWC 2015
I think you need to remember that this is more like the Olympics - organising committees bid to win the right to host. So in your shoes I'd be aiming to put together a really strong bid around US cities that have the best accessibility and appeal.

Until the bids are in, the reviewing committee won't be able to make a decision. The decision they do make will take in a lot of factors - not just the appeal of the destination and likely headcount. For example the reviewing committee may actually give a preference to bids outside of Europe as it is seen to enhance the global commitment of the NAF and help build the hobby in other regions.
Mepmuff - Dec 05, 2011 - 06:42 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: NAFWC 2015
      Quote:
if the majority of people aren't interested in a US city, then me worrying will be a moot point.

Please, don't be put off to easily... While many Europeans might prefer all world cups to be held in Europe it doesn't mean they won't enjoy coming to the USA.

I really hope the USA does put forward a strong bid.
Sebco - Dec 05, 2011 - 06:52 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: NAFWC 2015
The link to your survey is on the main BB french forum.

Concerning the interest in US cities or not, I've indicated in my topic on the french forum that WC 2015 should theorically takes place in North America. I didn't think your question about the place was a so opened question...

In my mind, if you ask 500 french coachs if they would want the WC to take place in USA or anywhere else... well, most of them will say, duh, anywhere? In France!

I think we have a very dynamic community in France and if World Cup takes place in USA, there will be at least 4 or 5 french teams (maybe more but it's very difficult to know that 4 years in advance). In spite of that, there are more french coachs abble to attend a WC in France than in USA. So, in my mind, we have to take in account that 2 first WC were in Europe and accept that 3rd is in North America instead of sound out European coachs to know if they prefer WC to take place in Europe or anywhere else. Wink
Alkaline13 - Dec 05, 2011 - 06:54 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: NAFWC 2015
      Mepmuff wrote:
      Quote:
if the majority of people aren't interested in a US city, then me worrying will be a moot point.

Please, don't be put off to easily... While many Europeans might prefer all world cups to be held in Europe it doesn't mean they won't enjoy coming to the USA.

I really hope the USA does put forward a strong bid.


Not put off yet Very Happy

I'm sure there are lots of coaches that would love to have such a big event run near them. (myself included) Which is why I'm going to try everything I can to get a proper bid put together. At this point, I'm simply getting the info from the community to see where their mind is at the moment.

I need to find out what information people would like that way I can bribe you all into coming to America in 2015

Laughing
Alkaline13 - Dec 05, 2011 - 06:58 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: NAFWC 2015
      Sebco wrote:
The link to your survey is on the main BB french forum.

Concerning the interest in US cities or not, I've indicated in my topic on the french forum that WC 2015 should theorically takes place in North America. I didn't think your question about the place was a so opened question...

In my mind, if you ask 500 french coachs if they would want the WC to take place in USA or anywhere else... well, most of them will say, duh, anywhere? In France!

I think we have a very dynamic community in France and if World Cup takes place in USA, there will be at least 4 or 5 french teams (maybe more but it's very difficult to know that 4 years in advance). In spite of that, there are more french coachs abble to attend a WC in France than in USA. So, in my mind, we have to take in account that 2 first WC were in Europe and accept that 3rd is in North America instead of sound out European coachs to know if they prefer WC to take place in Europe or anywhere else. Wink


Thank you very much! I understand what you mean, and I agree with you 100% If you asked 100 coaches where they would like the World Cup to take place, they'd probably say in their back yard Laughing I want people to be able to choose where they feel the best place to host the event would be. I think that there are some amazing cities in the USA that could host this event.. and I hope others feel the same way I do
Geggster - Dec 05, 2011 - 08:16 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: NAFWC 2015
As you might imagine that this subject came up more than once at the World Cup. The NAF is a global organisation and shouldn't limit itself to being in Europe - we all get that in principle.

I also think that the majority would imagine that a third WC in Europe would be best for absolute numbers.

The question for me (or more appropriate, the decision making body) is how many people in various locations would represent success?

Would 150 Americans/Canadians and 150 Europeans/Aussies all descending on Las Vegas for three days represent success and a progression of the BB community? I would say probably yes - although a large amount of Europeans would be disappointed.

Would 100 N.Americans and 80 Europeans/Aussies represent success? Hm - trickier. Those types of numbers might appear to be a failure - especially if you thought you might have got, say, 500/600 attendees in Europe (but a lot of disappointed guys from USA/Can).

Of course, the dilemma is there is no real way of predicting these numbers 12 months before the event, let alone 4 years.

I certainly look forward to a bid from as many countries as possible and the coming discussions to the merits of various locations.
Volstagg - Dec 05, 2011 - 12:21 PM
Post subject:
I think that at the end the best bid should always win, but also encouraging the widespread of the WC through all the continents should be considered as Geggster says.

Maybe stablishing a rate "forcing" the WC to be played in other continents like this: 1 time in Europe/1 time USA-Canada/1 Europe/1 time Australia-NZ... just an idea.

@Alkaline13: I'll post a thread with the link to your poll at the spanish forum, so you can get more opinions. Thanks for the initiative!
Kithor - Dec 05, 2011 - 02:15 PM
Post subject:
Another continent would be an option for me if it wont be in winter (preferable late summer to fall) as I would combine the long travel with holiday- just my 2 cents...
Alkaline13 - Dec 05, 2011 - 05:40 PM
Post subject:
Thanks to everyone who has added to this thread. I understand that the idea of a successful tournament has a different meaning for those in North America, but as Geggster said.. it's hard to guess how many people will attend an event that is taking place 4 years from now. My intention at this point is to simply found out where people's thoughts are at right now.

Whether I think 50 or 500 people will show up.. you'll be getting a top notch bid out of the USA Wink

Now keep those surveys coming in! Thanks!
Grumbledook - Dec 05, 2011 - 06:50 PM
Post subject:
Vegas in June during the world series of poker would get me there ;]

Or anywhere I've not been before, though I'm a bit wary about the costs of going to Oz. Currency fluctuations may play a part too...
daloonieshaman - Dec 05, 2011 - 10:15 PM
Post subject:
The US/Canada will put in a solid bid. The logistical support will come from a joint effort of organizers around North America. A wide selection of cities with appeal, access, and adventure. Will be debated. If the WCIII is in NA it will be well represented, and no one would be culled due to size limits. (Spain could bring 100 teams if they registered in time)(would France then try to bring 101 teams)
OldManDraco - Dec 06, 2011 - 04:24 AM
Post subject:
I'd suggest a committee should be sent to all venues and places that have a bid to see the locations, places to stay, transportaion possibilities and tourist interests. Of course they would have to be paid their flight tickets and stay over at the bidding cities. And as impartial as one can ever be, I'll volounteer for that job! Razz
Fun aside. Really looking forward where this is going. Enthousiasm is the first thing you need! Keep it up, and by incident, I also was never at a major, butthought LA would be a nice location to go to.Wink
Lord_Bojo - Dec 06, 2011 - 06:06 AM
Post subject:
      daloonieshaman wrote:
would France then try to bring 101 teams


Maybe, ....but we still need to recruit a lot until the WC3



I would be glad to go to US, but the only reserve I have is that if I would cross the ocean I would like to stay at least 2 weeks to visit the country or region.
The density of touristic sites in the town/region (not only museum like in the poll, but also historic places, etc ...) will be an important criteria for me.
I will not go to the WC3 if the only thing to do is to play Blood Bowl and come back home.
Volstagg - Dec 06, 2011 - 07:18 AM
Post subject:
      Lord_Bojo wrote:
      daloonieshaman wrote:
would France then try to bring 101 teams


Maybe, ....but we still need to recruit a lot until the WC3



I would be glad to go to US, but the only reserve I have is that if I would cross the ocean I would like to stay at least 2 weeks to visit the country or region.
The density of touristic sites in the town/region (not only museum like in the poll, but also historic places, etc ...) will be an important criteria for me.
I will not go to the WC3 if the only thing to do is to play Blood Bowl and come back home.


Totally agree, so if a USA/Canada bid is ongoing, it would be pretty cool if the dates are for July/August...I think that would attract a lot more of players, regardless of where it is being held.

Amsterdam was pretty cold!!! Exclamation
Doubleskulls - Dec 06, 2011 - 07:46 AM
Post subject:
My guess is that if the tournament is held outside of Europe having it in the school holidays would probably help more people attend than it would hinder, because many would combine family holidays with the World Cup.

For Australia I was thinking the best time would either very early January (e.g. day 1 is 2nd/3rd Jan) or around Easter. July/August get cold... would be below 20C Wink
longfang - Dec 06, 2011 - 11:10 AM
Post subject:
Having it in the "peak season" will mean increased flight and accomodation costs!
zootsuitjeff - Dec 06, 2011 - 03:29 PM
Post subject:
If I'm participating in presenting a NA bid, (hopefully I will be), I would definitely encourage it to be scheduled in between Chaos Cup in Chicago & Spike in Vancouver. Just imagine, a BB Grand Tour where you could attend two majors & the world cup in the span of just over two weeks!
Alkaline13 - Dec 06, 2011 - 04:39 PM
Post subject:
      zootsuitjeff wrote:
If I'm participating in presenting a NA bid, (hopefully I will be), I would definitely encourage it to be scheduled in between Chaos Cup in Chicago & Spike in Vancouver. Just imagine, a BB Grand Tour where you could attend two majors & the world cup in the span of just over two weeks!


This could also mean added costs for additional flights, depending on location. All things are being taken into consideration.
Grumbledook - Dec 06, 2011 - 05:58 PM
Post subject:
don't know if every country is the same but I know some coaches who wanted to go to the world cup couldn't go cause they are teachers and it was during term time

august in vegas is actually cheaper cause its so damn hot and the world series ends in the middle of july

some nice places in europe to visit during the summer too...
Doubleskulls - Dec 07, 2011 - 12:53 AM
Post subject:
Whenever you schedule it for some it will be better than others.
Winni - Dec 07, 2011 - 07:10 AM
Post subject:
Wherever and whenever it is, anything with less than 480 players would be a failure.
Rabid_Bogscum - Dec 07, 2011 - 07:30 AM
Post subject:
I dont agree ... a tournament in Europe with less than that maybe
Doubleskulls - Dec 07, 2011 - 07:51 AM
Post subject:
      Winni wrote:
Wherever and whenever it is, anything with less than 480 players would be a failure.


Personally I'd consider a 240 coach tournament in Australia or a 300 coach tournament in the US a success too. Size isn't everything.
DukeJan - Dec 07, 2011 - 09:02 AM
Post subject:
      zootsuitjeff wrote:
If I'm participating in presenting a NA bid, (hopefully I will be), I would definitely encourage it to be scheduled in between Chaos Cup in Chicago & Spike in Vancouver. Just imagine, a BB Grand Tour where you could attend two majors & the world cup in the span of just over two weeks!
If you arrange something like that I would guess that only few people would opt for this. Judging from the number of people attending both the Spike and Chaos Cup this year, I doubt many will do this. Actually, I think a WC could be serious competition for the majors.
daloonieshaman - Dec 07, 2011 - 11:30 AM
Post subject:
DJ, that is not what ZSJ is referring to. He is saying that if you are going to Fly to the US from say Europe or The little island in the middle of nowhere filled with over sized rodents. It might be more alluring to make it a whirlwind sweep and catch all 3 in short order. Great for the Aus as they can also make the Downunder mud bath. All they are missing then is the Dungbowl and the SudsBowl. (Be insane to catch all 6 in one year)
Doubleskulls - Dec 08, 2011 - 03:14 AM
Post subject:
I think DJs point is that some North American coaches or even international coaches may not attend one or both of the majors because they go to the World Cup instead. I know several of the Aussies who flew to the 2011 did a set of "warm up" tournaments prior, but this is a balancing act and like time of year some people are bound to be inconvenienced either way.
Winni - Dec 08, 2011 - 03:35 AM
Post subject:
      Doubleskulls wrote:
      Winni wrote:
Wherever and whenever it is, anything with less than 480 players would be a failure.


Personally I'd consider a 240 coach tournament in Australia or a 300 coach tournament in the US a success too. Size isn't everything.


A 20 coach tournament at the North Pole might be considered a success too, but not if the tournament was the World Cup. All i´m saying is that the main factor for the location of the World Cup should be accessibility.

If 300 american coaches would come to a World Cup held in the U.S., you might get another 200 from the rest of the world. I somehow doubt that would be possible in Australia. If the next World Cup was to be held in Europe, you will probably and easily get more than 500 coaches from Europe alone.

And anyhoo, dont believe what your wife tells you... size does matter Wink.
Doubleskulls - Dec 08, 2011 - 04:05 AM
Post subject:
The question is balancing the NAF's commitment to running a global organisation with a real "World Cup" against just running the biggest tournament possible. In practice a European based World Cup will inevitably be bigger than in any other continent because about three quarters of the members are European. The NAF needs to decide whether it is a global organisation providing value to all its members, or whether it will only focus on providing to the majority of members all the time.

Its worth thinking about all the factors that go into making a good tournament, let alone a World Cup, and its pretty easy to take this to extremes and say for example 1000 people turning up to a badly run tournament, where its too cold and you can't move around properly, with no food or drink on site, no prizes and relying on doing the scores by hand probably wouldn't be a very good experience. On the other hand going to a wonderful venue, with great and reasonably priced food and drink, plenty of space and fantastic organisation, but only 500 people may be a "better" World Cup. Once you accept that size is not everything and other factors matter then its about how you weight them against each other.

In my mind one of the factors that should be considered is attempting to balance the commitment to be a global organisation, so having a bid in a new continent would actually be a benefit for that bid against bids from previous hosts. This then needs to be balanced against all the other factors that are considered - including size. FIFA have taken this to a logical extreme and made the Football World Cup rotate between continents. I don't think we can do this because I don't think there are enough suitable bidders from every region to justify it.

BTW I would like to point out I think both WCs to date have been done really well and this is in no way an indictment against those organisers.
nick_nameless - Dec 08, 2011 - 09:21 AM
Post subject:
I lied and said Chaos Cup, but then I will have attended the Chaos Cup by the time this comes around Very Happy

Vegas!
Alkaline13 - Dec 09, 2011 - 02:00 AM
Post subject:
I like the discussion that is going on in this thread so far.

I think that Doubleskulls brings up a very good point in that, the naf is a worldwide organization. I understand that many people think a WC with less than 500 people would be a "failure" because it could have more.. but that's the wrong way to go about things. Running the event in the same place all the time defeats the purpose of marketing it as a "World Cup". I understand that no matter where the event takes place, some people WILL miss out. If held in Europe, most Americans will miss out. If held in the US, Europeans will miss out. There is no perfect system.

This poll and thread was created to get a general idea of where people would like to see the World Cup go next. This poll in no way, shape, or form speaks for the NAF or the World Cup committee. I am doing this as research, for my own knowledge, to find out if the interest is even out there for a North American based World Cup.

Don't worry... you WILL get an overview of what I've found out - and I can tell you for certain, the USA WILL have a well put together bid for the 2015 NAFWC.
Alkaline13 - Dec 09, 2011 - 02:26 AM
Post subject:
I will say, so far I have taken in just over 100 surveys. Thank you to everyone who took the time to fill one out -- if you have not, please take a moment to do so.
Pako - Dec 09, 2011 - 03:29 AM
Post subject:
I think it will be desirable to have an USA or Australian WC.

And as a committed player, I will try to be there. The same will do a number of coaches, who are very enthusiastic. Enough coaches to have a big, still representative WC IMO.

I think NAF TO could help by prospecting attendance from every country. I do think that, even not being accurate, will be informative if you will have 5 or 50 spanish players in a USA WC, for example.
dr._rudolf_von_richten - Dec 09, 2011 - 05:21 AM
Post subject:
      Alkaline13 wrote:
If held in Europe, most Americans will miss out. If held in the US, Europeans will miss out. There is no perfect system.


The logical conclusion of this would be to hold it in Antarctica, then everyone will miss out! Razz

More seriously, I believe that at some point it would be good to hold the World Cup in the US. I just don't believe that point has been reached yet, and that the upcoming one or two world cups should be held in Europe before other continents can be considered.

It is true that the NAF is supposed to be a global organization, and that it therefore should provide equally for all members, but it is also true that most of those members are based in Europe, and that Europe should therefore weigh heavier in the equations.
Alkaline13 - Dec 09, 2011 - 05:29 AM
Post subject:
      dr._rudolf_von_richten wrote:
      Alkaline13 wrote:
If held in Europe, most Americans will miss out. If held in the US, Europeans will miss out. There is no perfect system.


The logical conclusion of this would be to hold it in Antarctica, then everyone will miss out! Razz

More seriously, I believe that at some point it would be good to hold the World Cup in the US. I just don't believe that point has been reached yet, and that the upcoming one or two world cups should be held in Europe before other continents can be considered.

It is true that the NAF is supposed to be a global organization, and that it therefore should provide equally for all members, but it is also true that most of those members are based in Europe, and that Europe should therefore weigh heavier in the equations.


When the times for choices comes.. we will see Wink

I can only hope for the best Very Happy
Tripleskull - Dec 09, 2011 - 09:56 AM
Post subject:
I have great sympathy for the idea of a CW in the states or the Australia.

I don't like the options in your pole though, and that kept me from submitting. I think you ought to give the choice between Australia, Europe and the states - if other is relevant that option too.

After that you might ask about favorite location in the states etc. I would go for Vegas. Smile

I think 1/4 WC out of Europe sounds about right. SÃ¥ maybe the next one is the right one to be the first?
daloonieshaman - Dec 09, 2011 - 11:12 AM
Post subject:
In MHO if the WCIII was held in NA you would get a decient showing. A large lot from IS/Canada, about the same number of aussies, and at least 10x the number of Euros than NAs in WCII
zootsuitjeff - Dec 09, 2011 - 12:34 PM
Post subject:
Yeah I think putting together a strong North American bid is helpful organizationally for us North Americans, even if it is unsuccessful. Eventually I'm sure we will be even if it isn't next time. I think places like France, Italy, & Spain also have very strong arguments for hosting WC. But that just means they need to get their act together and put in a strong bid! I think it should be thought of as a competition to be the best hosts we can be. Perhaps the US can't actually win the World Cup, but maybe we can win the location bid!
Tripleskull - Dec 09, 2011 - 02:14 PM
Post subject:
Or maby the world cup of bb should just be a world cup for Europeans like the Super bowl is a world championship for americans. Laughing Wink

ps. I love NFL. Greatest sport in the world!
daloonieshaman - Dec 09, 2011 - 03:38 PM
Post subject:
In history Europe was referred to as the old world, so as history names it ... We can have a New World World Cup
daloonieshaman - Dec 09, 2011 - 03:39 PM
Post subject:
      zootsuitjeff wrote:
Yeah I think putting together a strong North American bid is helpful organizationally for us North Americans, even if it is unsuccessful. Eventually I'm sure we will be even if it isn't next time. I think places like France, Italy, & Spain also have very strong arguments for hosting WC. But that just means they need to get their act together and put in a strong bid! I think it should be thought of as a competition to be the best hosts we can be. Perhaps the US can't actually win the World Cup, but maybe we can win the location bid!


If (and a weak if at that Laughing ) Europe gets '15 I feel strongly it should be hosted by Spain.
nick_nameless - Dec 09, 2011 - 09:38 PM
Post subject:
You might get more Americans to come to Europe if you time the event differently. The dates this year are very close to Thanksgiving, and a lot of people would have other travel plans. If the next event is in the states it would almost have to be in another part of the calendar.
daloonieshaman - Dec 09, 2011 - 09:53 PM
Post subject:
      nick_nameless wrote:
You might get more Americans to come to Europe if you time the event differently. The dates this year are very close to Thanksgiving, and a lot of people would have other travel plans. If the next event is in the states it would almost have to be in another part of the calendar.

Labor Day weekend or Just before (4th-5th-6th September 2015)
Pipey - Dec 10, 2011 - 02:33 AM
Post subject:
A North American World Cup would be fantastic.

I think this is the key point:
      Doubleskulls wrote:
The question is balancing the NAF's commitment to running a global organisation with a real "World Cup" against just running the biggest tournament possible.


I'd bet an awful lot would travel to N America from Europe. Though it would be dependent on various factors:

-plenty of planning and notice, years in advance
-a practical location and time of year to keep costs down as much as possible
-possibly even direct NAF financial support (as with world cup I) to keep the ticket price low

Of course a fair and open bidding process would have to take place.
daloonieshaman - Dec 10, 2011 - 03:00 AM
Post subject:
      Pippy wrote:
A North American World Cup would be fantastic.

I think this is the key point:
      Doubleskulls wrote:
The question is balancing the NAF's commitment to running a global organisation with a real "World Cup" against just running the biggest tournament possible.


I'd bet an awful lot would travel to N America from Europe. Though it would be dependent on various factors:

-plenty of planning and notice, years in advance
-a practical location and time of year to keep costs down as much as possible
-possibly even direct NAF financial support (as with world cup I) to keep the ticket price low

Of course a fair and open bidding process would have to take place.


when you say keeping the ticket price down ... the last one was 120 Euros ~ $170US with a buffet lunch. How much would be fair for the same plus 3 nights in a hotel (mind you 2 people in a room) $300US? (If you book at a Hotel you get a good discount on the room rate)
Thadrin - Dec 10, 2011 - 05:33 AM
Post subject:
      dr._rudolf_von_richten wrote:
It is true that the NAF is supposed to be a global organization, and that it therefore should provide equally for all members, but it is also true that most of those members are based in Europe, and that Europe should therefore weigh heavier in the equations.


I think I'm correct in saying however that the USA has the single largest number of NAF members, in terms of nation of residence.

This is balanced out by the relative size, both geographically and population, of the USA and Europe as a whole.
dr._rudolf_von_richten - Dec 10, 2011 - 05:56 AM
Post subject:
      Thadrin wrote:

I think I'm correct in saying however that the USA has the single largest number of NAF members, in terms of nation of residence.

This is balanced out by the relative size, both geographically and population, of the USA and Europe as a whole.


Probably true, but that's not a big surprise, considering the US population is about 4 times that of the largest european country*, Germany, and 5 or more timse that of every other one.

Anyway, it's quite besides the point, since the current discussion is not about which country should host the next World Cup, but on which continent it's supposed to be held.


*Not counting Russia.
Darkson - Dec 10, 2011 - 08:47 AM
Post subject:
      dr._rudolf_von_richten wrote:
Anyway, it's quite besides the point, since the current discussion is not about which country should host the next World Cup, but on which continent it's supposed to be held.


Really? I must have missed that one - I thought this thread was about gauging interest about locations for a NA bid.

I was under the impression it's was about individual bids, not specific continents.
daloonieshaman - Dec 10, 2011 - 12:29 PM
Post subject:
      Darkson wrote:
      dr._rudolf_von_richten wrote:
Anyway, it's quite besides the point, since the current discussion is not about which country should host the next World Cup, but on which continent it's supposed to be held.


Really? I must have missed that one - I thought this thread was about gauging interest about locations for a NA bid.

I was under the impression it's was about individual bids, not specific continents.


Gotta start somewhere. I see his point with macro economics as Canada has equal chance in hosting as the US as far as the NA continent goes
Alkaline13 - Dec 10, 2011 - 02:21 PM
Post subject:
      Darkson wrote:
      dr._rudolf_von_richten wrote:
Anyway, it's quite besides the point, since the current discussion is not about which country should host the next World Cup, but on which continent it's supposed to be held.


Really? I must have missed that one - I thought this thread was about gauging interest about locations for a NA bid.

I was under the impression it's was about individual bids, not specific continents.


Darkson - You're correct. I DID create this thread to gauge interest about locations for my bid. However, you know how the internet works Laughing and now we seem to be in another place.

However.. I'm using the information that people are posting here as food for thought. So while people may not be convinced that North America can handle the cup, it won't stop me from making a bid for the next World Cup.
Doubleskulls - Dec 10, 2011 - 03:04 PM
Post subject:
      Darkson wrote:
I was under the impression it's was about individual bids, not specific continents.


Me too, the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned. I'm really glad that it looks like we will get serious bids from several continents.
dr._rudolf_von_richten - Dec 10, 2011 - 03:26 PM
Post subject:
      Darkson wrote:

Really? I must have missed that one - I thought this thread was about gauging interest about locations for a NA bid.

I was under the impression it's was about individual bids, not specific continents.



The post by Alkaline to which I originally responded was about America vs Europe as a suitable location. That was what I meant by 'the discussion'.
Alkaline13 - Dec 10, 2011 - 04:58 PM
Post subject:
I'm all about discussion -- let's keep this thread going! and Dr. Rudolf- I must have misunderstood as well. I appreciate your response though.

Everyone is giving me a lot to take into account.
Pipey - Dec 11, 2011 - 02:56 AM
Post subject:
      daloonieshaman wrote:


when you say keeping the ticket price down ... the last one was 120 Euros ~ $170US with a buffet lunch. How much would be fair for the same plus 3 nights in a hotel (mind you 2 people in a room) $300US? (If you book at a Hotel you get a good discount on the room rate)


Don't want to get into details at this stage. The general point is that it would encourage travel if costs were kept down.
Grumbledook - Dec 11, 2011 - 04:56 AM
Post subject:
wasn't the italian bid cheaper last year and amsterdam picked cause it was thought easier to get too for international players?

I think each bid will be considered on merit as they will all probably have different advantages and disadvantages compared to each other
Alkaline13 - Dec 11, 2011 - 01:53 PM
Post subject:
      Grumbledook wrote:
wasn't the italian bid cheaper last year and amsterdam picked cause it was thought easier to get too for international players?

I think each bid will be considered on merit as they will all probably have different advantages and disadvantages compared to each other


As they should!
Pako - Dec 12, 2011 - 01:44 AM
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I think NAF WC location will be easier itinerant if we could finally set up a set of continental NAF tournaments every 4 years (so, an international NAF team event every two years).

Most traveler players will enjoy the opportunity to have such a big tournament every two years (wherever it will be) and people who won't go outside their continent still have the chance to have an international meeting.

I also think that public bidding and more information about bids characteristics, comitee of venue election and so will help so much to understand these important (in terms of BB, of course) decissions.

Sorry for the off-topic.
DukeJan - Dec 12, 2011 - 03:15 AM
Post subject:
I don't think there should be more than two consecutive World Cups on a single continent. Especially Europe. I think right now an American WC would probably live up to expectations. If the next WC were held in Europe the next WC is probably going to be either disappointing (because expectations seem to be that it will be bigger than the NAF actually is) or so massive that a subsequent US WC would struggle to live up to expectations.
DukeJan - Dec 12, 2011 - 03:21 AM
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      Doubleskulls wrote:
I think DJs point is that some North American coaches or even international coaches may not attend one or both of the majors because they go to the World Cup instead. I know several of the Aussies who flew to the 2011 did a set of "warm up" tournaments prior, but this is a balancing act and like time of year some people are bound to be inconvenienced either way.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Notorious_jtb - Dec 15, 2011 - 05:33 PM
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We are hoping to get a NA team championship run before the 2015 bidding so lets see how that goes......
daloonieshaman - Dec 16, 2011 - 10:00 AM
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Just to be an ass. Mandalay Bay 's 180,000sf room, with 3 lunch buffets, and suites (shared rooms) for 2000 people is $304 per person (weekend of September 18th) so space and lodging are not a problem. (It is like getting 3quotes nights in a major hotel amd rhen getting a gteat weekend of bloodbowl free)
Rabid_Bogscum - Dec 17, 2011 - 12:41 AM
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Book it on a weekend the Ufc is in town please
daloonieshaman - Dec 17, 2011 - 10:29 AM
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I spoke with Virgin Atlantic, Delta, Klm, Iberan<?>, Luftansa, Air France

1) You can book an entire plane (or planes) for your filght at a good discount
2) Virgin Atlantic offers non stop service from Gatwick <sp?> UK to Las Vegas

They could not get me a price of course as they do not project that for out but to do it today would be about 600pounds per person round trip (I think this also includes the First Class Seats <dibs>)

Why would you book en entire plane. Well your coming anyway might as well have some bitchin fun for 11 hours
Grumbledook - Dec 17, 2011 - 04:16 PM
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that's not really any cheaper than just booking it anyway (apart from the first class seats)

of course it would be more fun to have a whole plane of ppl you know, not even something I'd even have considered asking them
Alkaline13 - Dec 17, 2011 - 07:38 PM
Post subject:
before we get derailed too far -- just want to update everyone. I have roughly 125 surveys back so far, I have updated the "majors" section to reflect a "none" response

Thanks again to everyone that has filled one out
millandson - Feb 03, 2012 - 06:24 PM
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I know for myself, and many people who would go to a World Cup (and some that did this time), flying all the way to the US would be a huge undertaking, and one that'd require a lot of thinking, considering the huge changes in price between flying from the UK to anywhere in Europe (I can find a flight to nearly anywhere for about £100 tops), and flying to the US, where it costs around £500-600.

Multiplying the transport costs by 5, and that's not even taking into account generally (from my personal experience of going around Europe and the US East Coast) cheaper hotels and accommodation in Europe, would mean that the chances of many Blood Bowl players from Europe purposefully going to the US for a tourney would be a hell of a lot fewer than those who would go to another European country. I know I wouldn't be able to afford it even if I wanted to, where as I might be able to swing flying to Berlin, or Amsterdam, or Madrid or Rome even. Even Prague would be fine (especially given the cheap drinks!).

So yea, you have to consider the huge hike in transport costs before making a generalisation that Europeans would be more likely to fly to America, than Americans would fly to Europe.
daloonieshaman - Feb 03, 2012 - 06:53 PM
Post subject:
Mill,
Yes of course the airfare would be higher
but
Hotel, food, beer are by far generally cheaper

A dump in Amsterdam was $100 + a night
Whereas a Dump here is $40ish
you can go fairly lavish for $100ish

and if NAF gets it act in gear we would know 3 years in advance for 2015 and 4 years in advance for 2019 as to the location of the WC giving those who want to go a chance to save the money. Hell £50 a month is £500 in 10 months so in 13 or 14 months you would have everything you need. double that if you cannot float £50 and only have to save £25

And in most NA locations you will have accommodations in the same location as the event

Yes I understand the difference between people who want to go and people that fancy the idea of going. People who want to go will overcome the logistics and be there. It sounds to me like you fancy the idea of going and do not really want to go.
generaljason - Feb 03, 2012 - 08:35 PM
Post subject:
      millandson wrote:
flying from the UK to anywhere in Europe I can find a flight to nearly anywhere for about £100 tops), and flying to the US, where it costs around £500-600.


£500 increase in travelling expenses per European participant? So what you're saying is, if all 450 Europeans out of the 480 participants from the last one wanted to go to one held in NA it would cost about £225,000, or $356,000 USD in additional travelling expenses?
daloonieshaman - Feb 03, 2012 - 09:43 PM
Post subject:
      generaljason wrote:
      millandson wrote:
flying from the UK to anywhere in Europe I can find a flight to nearly anywhere for about £100 tops), and flying to the US, where it costs around £500-600.


£500 increase in travelling expenses per European participant? So what you're saying is, if all 450 Europeans out of the 480 participants from the last one wanted to go to one held in NA it would cost about £225,000, or $356,000 USD in additional travelling expenses?


If they want to come, yes
remember only those who want to play, play.
If many of us in LA had more than short notice of WCII we would have attended. It is very easy to raise money over a longer period of time.
As far as bidding on 2015 that process should have started at (actually finished) the WCII but since it did not it should have started January 1st.
Delays Delays Delays

Ideally, for an event of this importance, preregistration should happen 18 months with paid registration about 10-12 months for your core numbers. Then have a higher cost registration for second guessers. and a big jump for at the door wanttabes. You can have your down payment, usually 10% at 9-10 months with a room alteration if needed, about 3 months, and final payment at the door.

Is the US that much different?

"Life is simple, over come the logistics and the rest is clear sailing"
generaljason - Feb 03, 2012 - 10:09 PM
Post subject:
      daloonieshaman wrote:
Is the US that much different?


You mean different than the last one? Yeah, about 356,000 dollars different.
Darkson - Feb 04, 2012 - 12:04 AM
Post subject:
      daloonieshaman wrote:
Delays Delays Delays

Not sure how you can say "delay", when it was never meant to be after the last WC or Jan 1st. It's only a delay if it didn't happen on the advertsied date (such as the Focus/Cyanide 2011 World Cup, that still hasn't started! Laughing )

And while I agree it would be nice to have the next WC location already, and bids for the 2019 one now, we're not a multi-billion pound organisation like FIFA or the Olympics. Seriously, how many people can honestly say they'll be playing BB in 8 years time? Yeah, sure, we can all say it now, but how many people have we seen that have now gone from the BB scene in the last 8? People that were, at that time, as committed to BB as we are today?
zootsuitjeff - Feb 04, 2012 - 01:14 AM
Post subject:
I do agree with Dennis, and I will be advocating for trying to have the city announced for the 2019 WC at the 2015 WC.
generaljason - Feb 04, 2012 - 08:04 AM
Post subject:
      Darkson wrote:
Seriously, how many people can honestly say they'll be playing BB in 8 years time? Yeah, sure, we can all say it now, but how many people have we seen that have now gone from the BB scene in the last 8? People that were, at that time, as committed to BB as we are today?


Yeah I know I was laughing about it this the other day. WC 2019, and then WC 2023. I'll be almost 50 in 2023. I think some people forget that these are held every 4 years.

So just in the interest of speeding things along, I want to announce my World Cup bid right now. Yeah, WC 2043, held November 13, 14 and 15th, at:

Amica Retirement Community
Arbutus Manor
2125 Eddington Drive
Vancouver
BC V6L 3A9
Call 604.736.8936
http://www.amica.ca/arbutus/tour.html

Huge dining and seating area. They got 24 hour security if those pesky teenagers start getting rowdy. Room service if you get sick in between rounds. 24 hour in suite emergency response.

Mark it on your calendars boys. Oh and start saving.
blammaham - Feb 04, 2012 - 10:09 AM
Post subject:
I feel old already! S.
daloonieshaman - Feb 04, 2012 - 10:46 AM
Post subject:
      Darkson wrote:
      daloonieshaman wrote:
Delays Delays Delays

Not sure how you can say "delay", when it was never meant to be after the last WC or Jan 1st. It's only a delay if it didn't happen on the advertsied date (such as the Focus/Cyanide 2011 World Cup, that still hasn't started! Laughing )

And while I agree it would be nice to have the next WC location already, and bids for the 2019 one now, we're not a multi-billion pound organisation like FIFA or the Olympics. Seriously, how many people can honestly say they'll be playing BB in 8 years time? Yeah, sure, we can all say it now, but how many people have we seen that have now gone from the BB scene in the last 8? People that were, at that time, as committed to BB as we are today?


Okay love dr #1, how many days before the event this time does NAF plan on getting the ball rolling? 5 - 6 maybe even stretch it to 10 days in advance.

I know this example is an exaggeration, but if NAF does not know by now and will not be transparent about when they might get a clue about getting started we are in a sad state.

As far as projection. If we have any leadership ability at all and figure in a few years that this is a game we no longer care about, Nuffle help us that we would have had the wisdom to pass to torch.

Planning has nothing to do with money.
Darkson - Feb 04, 2012 - 11:48 AM
Post subject:
Who said they don't have a clue when they'll get started? I believe Lycos posted a rough tie line somewhere (but on my phone, so can't search). I think the location would be known 2 years in advance (but I might be misremembering so don't take that as gospel).
daloonieshaman - Feb 04, 2012 - 12:38 PM
Post subject:
      Darkson wrote:
Who said they don't have a clue when they'll get started? I believe Lycos posted a rough tie line somewhere (but on my phone, so can't search). I think the location would be known 2 years in advance (but I might be misremembering so don't take that as gospel).


yea, and you wonder why people can't or won't want to travel further away than a 'local' game. and yes WCII by every right was a "local"event and yes I dare say "local" as the entirety of Europe can fit into one of our regions.
(valley girl voice) "Like [tisk] O.M.G., it took me 4-6 hours to drive there"

As we said in the Military "Piss Poor Prior Planning"
generaljason - Feb 04, 2012 - 03:53 PM
Post subject:
      Darkson wrote:
Who said they don't have a clue when they'll get started? I believe Lycos posted a rough tie line somewhere (but on my phone, so can't search). I think the location would be known 2 years in advance (but I might be misremembering so don't take that as gospel).


So everyone has 2 years in advance to plan for the next one? Sounds more than ample to me, but then again I open my Christmas presents on Christmas day and not on the eve of.
magictobe - Feb 05, 2012 - 12:55 AM
Post subject:
[quote="generaljason"]
      Darkson wrote:

So just in the interest of speeding things along, I want to announce my World Cup bid right now. Yeah, WC 2043, held November 13, 14 and 15th, at:

Amica Retirement Community
Arbutus Manor
2125 Eddington Drive
Vancouver
BC V6L 3A9
Call 604.736.8936
http://www.amica.ca/arbutus/tour.html

Huge dining and seating area. They got 24 hour security if those pesky teenagers start getting rowdy. Room service if you get sick in between rounds. 24 hour in suite emergency response.

Mark it on your calendars boys. Oh and start saving.


Putting a euro a day in pot to travel to vancouver to be able to go to this world cup. I will be 67 and will have spare time enough to go their.

I hope one of my grand children will follow to throw my dice and move figs at the end of the board.
generaljason - Feb 05, 2012 - 07:42 AM
Post subject:
Yeah and we only have 2 rules:

01. You must put in your teeth.
02. Please turn up your volumes.
poundfist - Feb 05, 2012 - 11:32 AM
Post subject:
I think a world cup in Vegas would be awesome. With the right organization it would be memorable. I think attendance would be lower than any European WC, even if the quota system were thrown out (and for such a trek, I doubt a European quota would be necessary), and yes, there ate other things to do there).

I also think a Chicago or a Vancouver WC would be great, close to Spike and the Chaos Cup (the closeness in time would either hurt or help the Major's attendance, and we'd have to try it to find out). Venues however ate not as affordable in either location. Vegas is a convention town.

I would go to such an event, or even run it if given the chance. But yes, my skepticism regarding international participation has been noted on another thread.
zootsuitjeff - Feb 05, 2012 - 11:53 AM
Post subject:
Was there a quota set up for 2007? My understanding was that the quota system was set up primarily due to limitations of the space. One nice advantage vegas has over most venues is a lot of flexibility of space. It will be relatively very easy to adjust size based on attendance
Notorious_jtb - Feb 05, 2012 - 03:16 PM
Post subject:
No quota needed for 2007 you are right. But it did take need a second venue to accomodate everyone.
Notorious_jtb - Feb 05, 2012 - 03:19 PM
Post subject:
      generaljason wrote:
      Darkson wrote:
Who said they don't have a clue when they'll get started? I believe Lycos posted a rough tie line somewhere (but on my phone, so can't search). I think the location would be known 2 years in advance (but I might be misremembering so don't take that as gospel).


So everyone has 2 years in advance to plan for the next one? Sounds more than ample to me, but then again I open my Christmas presents on Christmas day and not on the eve of.


two years is fine for a not for profit volunteer organisation. We could do further IF we started hiring real professional staff...... Doesnt seem probable.
Doubleskulls - Feb 06, 2012 - 12:57 AM
Post subject:
Quotas are only about allocating space in the event of being oversubscribed, with preference given to those travelling a long way. So for example, a US hosted tournament I would expect that quota would only apply to US teams, and perhaps Canadians too.

If you want to maximise European attendance then East coast is better, or Vegas Smile
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