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Strategy and Tactics - A few inputs on skills

SBG - Jul 25, 2012 - 06:23 AM
Post subject: A few inputs on skills

Hey there, I'm puzzled for a few skills on a weel-developed humans team. All skills regular.

Blitzer with Mighty Blow, Tackle. Thinking Guard (4 on the team) or POn (2 on the team.

Blitzer with Mighty Blow, Piling On, Jump Up, Tackle. Not sure. Dauntless? Guard?

Thrower with Accurate, AG4, Strong Arm and Block. Nerves of Steel or Safe Throw?

I'll gladly read your inputs!

Fred

Grumbledook - Jul 25, 2012 - 06:39 AM
Post subject: RE: A few inputs on skills

juggernaut can be handy on a blitzer for a human team, cancels wrestle (so be great with MB and tackle) and also cancels out stand firm which can be handy, I would probably go frenzy first though, same could apply for both of them, I'd also consider stand firm afterwards as well

of course you can never really go far wrong with guard, though it doesn't combo greatly with piling on...

I'd probably take safe throw on the thrower personally, that isn't a player I would want to put in tackle zones to use NOS and with AG4 he should be able to dodge away if marked, it also helps the passing game more as interceptions are even less likely

Warpstone - Jul 25, 2012 - 10:32 AM
Post subject: RE: A few inputs on skills

+1 Safe throw on the Thrower. If you roll an incomplete pass, you can just elect to hold on to the ball then.

I also agree with Grumbledook, you can never have enough guard, so that's always a solid choice if you want.

Do you have a frenzy piece? The MB+Tackle blitzer becomes a perfect catcher-hunter with frenzy. His 4th skill could be juggernaut to make the perfect crowd-surfer at high TV.

The killer blitzer is already pretty good at his job. This might be one of those rare cases where Pro is handy: let's you try to reroll push results to make sure you have a chance to break armour. It makes him more likely to get CAS. Failing that, you may want to consider something that keeps him alive longer: fend for example.

Tojurub - Jul 27, 2012 - 12:28 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: A few inputs on skills

Warpstone wrote:

+1 Safe throw on the Thrower. If you roll an incomplete pass, you can just elect to hold on to the ball then.

I'm confused. The rules don't say anything about an incomplete pass. There it states when you fumble the ball on a roll other than a natural 1, then you hold on to the ball. If I read the rules correctly then there is no change on the incomplete pass. Can anybody please clarify this for me?

Warpstone - Jul 27, 2012 - 03:07 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: A few inputs on skills

Tojurub wrote:

Warpstone wrote:

+1 Safe throw on the Thrower. If you roll an incomplete pass, you can just elect to hold on to the ball then.

No prob. Look at the rolls an AG3 thrower needs to make.

He completes on:
quick 3+
short 4+
long 5+
bomb 6+

He fumbles on:
quick: 1 (no minus)
short: 1 (no bonus)
long: 2 or less (-1)
bomb: 3 or less (-2)

If you have accurate and strong arm, then you will only ever lose the ball when passing on a straight 1 (via fumbling). This is because the +2 from these skills allow you to complete all quick and short passes on a roll of 2 or higher. For long and long bombs, you can choose not to use the +1 each skill gives you to avoid throwing an incomplete pass. For example, a long pass where you roll only a 2 is still incomplete with +2 from skills, so you do not use accurate and strong arm and instead use safe throw to negate the fumble. You can do the same thing for a 2 or 3 die result on a long bomb.

Basically, with the combo of safe throw+accurate+strong arm, you never need to throw an incomplete pass, and you only fumble it on a natural 1. You can always elect to take a shot at passing it deep with the knowledge that the ball only leaves your thrower's hand if the pass is accurate. If you roll a 1, the pass reroll gives you a shot at avoiding a fumble. If your first roll is only a 2, he just hangs on to the ball for another low-risk pass next turn. The ever present threat of a low-risk deep passes is a great way to stretch the field.

SBG - Jul 27, 2012 - 05:36 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: A few inputs on skills

Warpstone: your last post is only valid for AG3, right? Cause a long bomb with AG4 is still accurate on a roll of 2, right?

Fred

Warpstone - Jul 27, 2012 - 06:21 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: A few inputs on skills

SBG wrote:

Warpstone: your last post is only valid for AG3, right? Cause a long bomb with AG4 is still accurate on a roll of 2, right?

Fred

Hi Fred, sorry I missed that he had AG4! Embarassed

I think it's still a 3+ for such an AG4 thrower attempting a long bomb: AG4 target die roll is 3+, pass modifier is -2 and accurate and strong arm give you +2.

But you're right the AG4 thrower with safe throw only needs accurate to avoid fumbling it or throwing an incomplete pass:

AG4 Passing die roll results with safe throw and only +1
quick: 1 fails, 2+ complete
short: 1 fails, 2+ complete
long: 1 fails, 2 safe throw used, 3+ complete
bomb: 1 fails, 2 and 3 safe throw used, 4+ complete

It's even better when you're +2. For your guy, his only "bad" result is having to use safe throw on a 2 for a bomb! Everything else will be complete or a natural botch anyway.

Take the safe throw and frustrate the hell out of your opponent with your low-failure long bombs. Very Happy

You'll make them 66% of the time even without the need to risk the passing reroll for a final 1/6 chance of fumbling.

Daggers - Jul 27, 2012 - 06:31 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: A few inputs on skills

I am confused. The rules state nothing about holding on for incomplete passes. Safe throw only protects you from fumbling in that aspect. Safe Throw would not allow you to hold on to the ball if you threw an inccurate pass, only a modified fumble roll (where the dice roll equals 1 after modifiers, since a natural 1 is still a fumble).

Fred, with the skills your thrower has, unless you throw alot of high risk passes or have alot of AG teams that can intercept you, or you roll alot of 1's, I wouldn't bother with Safe Throw or NoS. They won't come in handy. I would say give him leader since he is likely a very effective thrower as is.

For the blitzers, I would say dauntless on the 2nd blitzer to reduce the need for all that guard, and frenzy on the 1st to make him a great blodger hunter.

Warpstone - Jul 27, 2012 - 08:50 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: A few inputs on skills

Dwarfrunner wrote:

Yah, I apologize, my explanation above was cumbersome. What I'm suggesting is that combination of Safe Throw + Accurate and/or Strong Arm gives the thrower two good options:

a) on a roll that doesn't make the target, you decline to use the positive modifiers from Accurate and Strong Arm and then Safe Throw lets you "hang on" to the ball instead of being forced to choose between a fumble result (no + skill mods) or an inaccurate pass (using + skill mods to avoid the fumble).

b) the modifiers are enough to make the pass complete.

With Fred's thrower, if he takes safe throw he never has a single roll result that could result in an incompletion. Even if he's throwing in the rain (or in a TZ or under DP), Fred's thrower will never whiff on the throw outside of a natural fumble:

AG4, with Safe Throw, Strong Arm and Accurate in 1 TZ:
Quick: 1 fumble, 2+ complete
Short: 1 fumble, 2+ complete
Long: 1 fumble, 2 safe throw non-event, 3+ complete
Bomb: 1 fumble, 2+3 safe throw non-event, 4+ complete

That's pretty sick reliability from a pocket passer. Heck you could even make him pass under pressure, in the rain, under disturbing presence if you wanted: Very Happy

AG4, with Strong Arm and Accurate with -3 modifiers!:
Quick: 1 fumble, 2 safe throw non-event, 3+ complete
Short: 1 fumble, 2+3 safe throw non-event, 4+ complete
Long: 1 fumble, 2+3+4 safe throw non-event, 5+ complete
Bomb: 1 fumble, 2+3+4+5 safe throw non-event, 6 complete

I know that sounds extreme, but really the point is that you can risk a pass with this guy when the reward is high but you can afford to wait if it doesn't work out (i.e. "ho hum, had to use safe throw. so now I'll just build a cage around the thrower.").

With Nerves of Steel, you're committed to putting the ball into play. The biggest risk in passing isn't often the chance of completion but rather the chance of catastrophic failure, hence safe throw is handy when the stars align to build a thrower like Fred's.