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dreamscreator |
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Post subject: Stop Morg-ation of the tournaments
 Posted: Nov 16, 2021 - 08:49 AM
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Joined: Aug 04, 2014
Spain
Posts: 56
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
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For a few month, in the Spanish forum we have been debating about the Big Three in tournaments (Morg, Griff, Hackflem). If you want you can read it here in Spanish: http://bloodbowlforo.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18354
I want to traslate this debate to the NAF and all the community, so, here my original post with some other ideas from the rest of conversation.
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Since the BB2020 rules came in, there has been a trend in many tournaments that was not seen with the previous rules, the appearance of the Big Three (Morg, Griff and Hackflem) in the winning teams and many of the rosters. Amazons with Morg, Norses with Morg, Pact with Morg, Dwarves with Morg, and so on. Before, at most you'd see Morg in a Halfling team and you'd already freak out. Add to that, Dwarves with Griff, Ogres with Griff, Chaos Dwarves with Hackflem, and so on.
The price reduction of Morg and Griff and the possibility for certain teams to take Hackflem is changing the meta of the game, and it doesn't seem for the better.
The vast majority of tournaments (that accept stars), you can see how the winners have one of the Big Three. Some tournaments have tried to prevent this proliferation with various tactics, such as banning star players altogether, making them more expensive, tier 3 only, and so on. Some new players who come to tournaments, and face four teams with Morg, do not enjoy playing, they are potential players who may not return to a game they were promised was fun.
What seems clear is that the stars players are intended and created to be used in leagues, and are not tuned for tournaments.
It would be a good idea for the NAF to act on this, perhaps with new prices, with small modifications. The idea of this post is to give our opinion on this, and hopefully, the NAF will act on it. |
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grant85 |
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Post subject: RE: Stop Morg-ation of the tournaments
Posted: Nov 16, 2021 - 03:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 19, 2005
Canada
Posts: 1276
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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| Thanks for sharing the post and the BB Foro link. Stars as a topic were brought up in the most recent NAF review and whenever it is published there might be some direction / support. |
_________________
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Tojurub |
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Post subject: RE: Stop Morg-ation of the tournaments
Posted: Nov 17, 2021 - 01:02 AM
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Joined: Aug 18, 2003
Germany
Posts: 1520
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
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| Even in Leagues Morg is overpowered. In the last game I conceeded at halftime after Morg ripped the 5th player of the pitch with lasting injuries. |
_________________
Dwarves rule!!! Especially when they pass!
3rd place Underworld Cup 2003
Swiss Champion 2004
2nd place Royal RumBBL 2015 and White Star Cup 2016
.....and now Ex-Vize-Prez
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Nota |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Stop Morg-ation of the tournaments
Posted: Nov 17, 2021 - 02:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 18, 2017
Spain
Posts: 5
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
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grant85 wrote: Thanks for sharing the post and the BB Foro link. Stars as a topic were brought up in the most recent NAF review and whenever it is published there might be some direction / support.
Do you know or have an aproximate date of release for this document? |
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xusona |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Stop Morg-ation of the tournaments
Posted: Nov 17, 2021 - 03:55 AM
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Joined: Apr 08, 2020
Spain
Posts: 1
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
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I agree with Dreamscreator, and i am happy to see that is a topic that is under review by the NAF. These three Star Players have the power to change totally the match, instead of balance it, which i assume was the initial purpose.
Thx! |
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Dirk |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Stop Morg-ation of the tournaments
Posted: Nov 18, 2021 - 02:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 01, 2018
Germany
Posts: 35
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
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| And in addition to being unbalanced by themself or by having different power levels not reflected by their price, a combination like Hackflem with Nurgle or Chaos Dwarf gives the team an element of speed changing their playstyle totally. Not only for fluff reasons the selection of starplayers by team and not by some weird tag given to them was much better in my opinion. |
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pellevin |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 28, 2021 - 04:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 04, 2013
Sweden
Posts: 9
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
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| Unfortunately, currently NAF is exacerbating the problem by refusing to sanction tournaments that ban the horrible three. |
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Tojurub |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 29, 2021 - 01:01 AM
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Joined: Aug 18, 2003
Germany
Posts: 1520
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
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pellevin wrote: Unfortunately, currently NAF is exacerbating the problem by refusing to sanction tournaments that ban the horrible three.
well, that is not unexpected, because the NAF has had this policy forever, it's either non or all Starplayers.....but it is always possible to price them differently to solve the issue |
_________________
Dwarves rule!!! Especially when they pass!
3rd place Underworld Cup 2003
Swiss Champion 2004
2nd place Royal RumBBL 2015 and White Star Cup 2016
.....and now Ex-Vize-Prez
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Dirk |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 29, 2021 - 09:53 AM
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Joined: Jun 01, 2018
Germany
Posts: 35
Location: Germany
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dreamscreator |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 02, 2021 - 04:21 AM
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Joined: Aug 04, 2014
Spain
Posts: 56
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
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Dirk wrote:
That's an improvement, but I don't think is enough. I hope NAF will rule it. |
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Gaixo |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 06, 2021 - 03:15 PM
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Former President
Joined: May 08, 2009
United States of America
Posts: 811
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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The annual review has been released, with no new allowances for "fixing" star players. For the record, many say there are 6 problematic stars, adding Deeproot, Eldril, and Kreek to your list.
The easiest way to deal with stars is to ban them outright, but there are other effective methods (a skill or tier tax being the most common) being used around the world. Have you found those to be ineffective? |
_________________
National Tournament Organizer, USA
(NAF Tournament Director, 2014-2018; NAF President, 2018-2024)
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dreamscreator |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 14, 2021 - 01:25 AM
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Joined: Aug 04, 2014
Spain
Posts: 56
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
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Gaixo wrote: The annual review has been released, with no new allowances for "fixing" star players.
It's a really shame. I don't understand why we can't have extra ways to "fix". Something easy as ban some starplayers but allow the rest.
Gaixo wrote: For the record, many say there are 6 problematic stars, adding Deeproot, Eldril, and Kreek to your list.
Yes, there are some other powerful stars, but to me they are so problematic. There have been always powerful stars in other edition (Roxanne, Griff...) but never so unbalancing as the Big Three.
Gaixo wrote: The easiest way to deal with stars is to ban them outright, but there are other effective methods (a skill or tier tax being the most common) being used around the world. Have you found those to be ineffective?
In Spain we have use so many ways to deal with them, but I don't think any of them are effectice methods.
If you low the treasury, for example, you are punish so many teams who know are more expensive, and, anyway, still can see full linewoman Amazon with Morg. You can allow just stars for tier stunty, but still can have the combo Morg-Hackflem or Morg-Griff with snots or halfligns, that is insane.
I ban all the stars in my tournaments, but it's an old school tournament. But I understand others who want to play with stars, but with equilibrate ones.
The ways I found more reasonable is increase the prize just for those star players, or modify them, Mighty (+1) instead (+2) and Hackflem no allowed to Chaos Dwarf, but I'm not sure if that is "legal" in NAF terms. |
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