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smeborg |
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Post subject: Confused about Pro
 Posted: Jan 26, 2008 - 08:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 223
Status: Offline
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Dear Rules Gurus
For some time, the Pro skill description has read: "Once per turn, a Pro is allowed to re-roll any one dice roll he has made..."
I had interpreted this (perhaps wrongly) to mean that Pro could only be used during a Team Turn.
However, there is a newly added paragraph in the Kick-Off Table section (p.1 which says: "however, players may use the Catch or Pro skill to try to re-roll the catch roll." (i.e. during the Kick-Off sequence.
Now, unless I have missed something, the skill description appears to contradict this (since the Kick-Off sequence does not take place during a Team Turn. So could some kind soul please clarify for me the letter and spirit of the Pro skill rules. For example:
- Can Pro be used outside Team Turns (for example, after a Turnover has occurred, but during resolution of a bouncing ball)?
- Can Pro be used repeatedly if not being used during a Team Turn (for example in multiple attempts to catch a bouncing ball)?
- Are there any other examples of Pro use that it would be helpful to know about (for example, can a Player use Pro to re-roll one of the dice used to scatter the ball on Kick-Off)?
Thanks for your help.
Smeborg |
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tenwit |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 27, 2008 - 03:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2007
Posts: 48
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Pro can be use once per turn: your turn or their turn. So it cannot be used outside all turns (e.g. Regeneration roll) but it can be used for Dump-off, Tentacles, Shadowing, or anything else that happens during your opponents' turn. Theoretically, it can be used 32 times per game (16 of your turns plus 16 of theirs), plus a few extra for catch kick-offs or during blitz kick-off table results.
As far as I know, the kick-off catch is the only time that it can be used outside of a turn, but it is specifically mentioned in that rule, so it works there.
Quote: - Can Pro be used outside Team Turns (for example, after a Turnover has occurred, but during resolution of a bouncing ball)?
Poor example: your turn doesn't end until after the ball comes to rest. So if (e.g.) a pass is fumbled, then a turnover will happen when the ball stops moving, but until then, it's still your turn.
Quote: - Can Pro be used repeatedly if not being used during a Team Turn (for example in multiple attempts to catch a bouncing ball)?
It can be used once per player per turn. Two different pros could try to catch the same bouncing ball (assuming tha tthe first one fails), but if one pro fails, the ball bounces away, hits a prone player and bounces back, he can't use Pro a second time. It's still the same turn. |
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject: Re: Confused about Pro
Posted: Jan 28, 2008 - 03:36 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
Status: Offline
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Basically Pro can be used any time you could use a normal skill reroll or team reroll - so catching bouncing balls etc.
The whole area you are describing I don't think is particularly well worded in the rules. My personal interpretation is that the team turn only ends once everything is at rest (ball has finished moving, all AV/Inj rolls made etc). So your examples aren't correct. There is never a time outside of a team turn - except the kick off.
So your 1st question is yes, but its still the team turn.
2nd question - repeated use no. I'd rule catching the ball at a kick off is a "turn" so if you fail the catch and for some reason it bounces back you can't use pro again. However I think a strict interpretation of the rules would mean you could use it. Since this is such a rare occurance I doubt its worth clarifying offiically.
The use of pro with the kick is awkward. The only reference to a player kicking the ball is under the kick skill. The description of kick doesn't mention players at all - it just says the coach places the ball. If asked to rule I'd say no you can't. |
_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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smeborg |
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Posted: Jan 31, 2008 - 07:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 223
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Thanks guys.
This gives a reasonable interpretation, which I'm happy with.
I suggest that what constitutes a "team turn" could be explicitly defined in the next rules revision. Also, the Pro skill description could be expanded to included the extra rule relating to catching the ball during the kick-off sequence (rather than having an aspect of a skill described in another part of the rulebook!).
My question arose for purely practical reasons, as I am about to launch a Nurgle team in the Auckland BB Federation league. When toying around with skill development ideas for my pestigor "Runner" (if I may glorify him with such a title) I hit upon the rather appealing combination: Sure Hands, Kick-off Return, Pro.
At the same time, it occurred to me that the defensive skill combination of Kick, Pro could be rather useful, if this sort of thing is what was intended by the designer(s). I can't find that it's specifically prevented in the rules (especially if Pro is explicitly allowed to be used during the kick-off sequence).
Cheers
Smeborg |
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tenwit |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 31, 2008 - 09:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2007
Posts: 48
Status: Offline
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smeborg wrote: I can't find that it's specifically prevented in the rules (especially if Pro is explicitly allowed to be used during the kick-off sequence).
Pro can be used during the kick-off sequence when catching the kickoff or kickoff bounce. It can't be used to reroll the kick scatter dice, so there's no way that Pro can improve the Kick skill.
P.S. Hi up there in JAFAland. The NZI sevens is going swimmingly, thanks for asking. PM me next time you're next here in Wellywood, touring teams always welcome  |
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 01, 2008 - 04:18 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Location: Kent, UK
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| tenwit - what do you base that on? I read the relevant sections and I couldn't see anywhere where it would prohibit use on the kick off roll (the D6 & D. |
_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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tenwit |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2008 - 02:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2007
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I inferred it from the combination of the kick-off and Pro sections of the LRB. From "The Kick-Off". pg6:
Quote: the coach of the kicking team places the ball in any square in the opponent???s half of the pitch, including the opponent???s End Zone if he likes. The ball will then scatter in a random direction. Using the Scatter template, roll the eight-sided dice once for the direction of scatter, and then roll a D6 to see how many squares the ball will go.
The coach is (or, seems to be) the one making the kick-off scatter roll.
From "Pro", pg46:
Quote: Once per turn, a Pro is allowed to re-roll any one dice roll he has made He hasn't made an dice rolls. Only coach has.
The Kick skill description is the only place (that I could find) that mentions a player taking a kick-off. I guess that that supersedes the (implied) rule on pg6. But it's all reading between the lines, and I've been told that unless the rule is explicit, then it's not there. There's no rule that explicitly says that a player is the one causing the scatter dice to be rolled, so I've taken that to mean that no player is.
It would be kind of like a player making an inaccurate pass, then when the ball goes out of play, using Pro to reroll the crowd's scatter. Or if a Pro drops a catch, using the skill to reroll the d8. I just don't think that it's sensible, and there's nothing in the rules to contradict that opinion. |
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squighunter |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 27, 2008 - 08:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 28, 2004
Miami, FL,
Posts: 44
Location: Miami, FL,
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| OK,so I have a related question on Pro: I know you cannot reroll a reroll or a skill based reroll, but can you use a team reroll on a dice that were rerolled due to a successful use of Pro? |
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tenwit |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 27, 2008 - 08:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2007
Posts: 48
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No. You can use a Team Reroll to reroll a Pro roll, but not on the roll that you were trying to reroll with Pro.
Example: Wardancer Imapanzee Pleezhitmee has Pro and is daintily leaping out of the tentacles of the fearsome Beast of Nurgle Slrgthzthig. Imapanzee elegantly rolls a 1. Yay (I mean nuts). Time for Pro to shine! 1. Double yay (I mean.. oh goshdangit, no, I really mean yay). Team reroll to the rescue! 6! The Pro roll has now passed. So the coach still has to make one more roll.. the Leap reroll.
Here's hoping for another 1! |
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squighunter |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 27, 2008 - 09:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 28, 2004
Miami, FL,
Posts: 44
Location: Miami, FL,
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| Gotcha, but just to ake sure we both understand each other, if the Wardancer did NOT need the team reroll to reroll the Pro roll (i.e. he MADE his Pro roll), but the subsequent Pro-based reroll of the dodge was another "one", can he THEN use a team reroll for that second dodge attempt?? |
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tenwit |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 27, 2008 - 09:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2007
Posts: 48
Status: Offline
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| Nonono. You can never, under any circumstance, make more two rolls for a particular effort. |
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