NAF Logo
leftstar May 17, 2024 - 03:09 PM
capleft
spacer
NAF World Headquarters
home forum rankings tourneys nyleague faq
The Lizardman team is overpowered. rightstar
capright

Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Printable version Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Author Message
GalakStarscraperOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 12, 2004 - 07:27 AM
Ex-Rulz Committee


Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562

Status: Offline
      Thadrin wrote:
And there was me thinking it was because the Events mob know squat about BB, being standard GW "WFB/40K/LotR" flunkies rather than people who actually care about the rest of us?
(maybe a touch unfair...but thats how it seems)


I definitely agree with Thadrin on this one. And while I posted JJ's comments ... I very very much disagree that the Blood Bowl should cater to the UK players only. That's a amazing step back from where I thought the game and the tournament environment was going.

Galak
 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Reply with quote Back to top
ThadrinOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 12, 2004 - 07:31 AM



Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Sweden
Posts: 353
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
You would have thought that the "21 countries represented" last year would have been a clue.

_________________
Thadrin
Jag är inte svensk, men jag här bott här ett tag nu.
Member nr. 219
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
TojurubOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 12, 2004 - 07:32 AM



Joined: Aug 18, 2003
Germany
Posts: 1520
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Ok..I sent an e-mail to the address posted in Galaks post. This is the answer I have gotten from the Tournament manager. It looks like we have to deal with the rules the way they are. I mentioned something about feedback after the BB. Didn't they do that last year too, collect feedback? I'm just wondering what last years feedback was which caused this new rules set?

I'm not giving my comments on his answer, so everybody can make their own opinion.

      Quote:

Torsten,

I will try and clarify for you some of the points you have raised. I
have
put my responses in capitals to distinguish them from your notes.

Brian Aderson

UK Tournaments Manager

-----Original Message-----

Hello Fanatic,
as you are probably experiencing right now, a lot of
people are not happy with the rules preview of the BB
XLIII.

I don't know the structure of Fanatic/GamesWorkshop to
know who's responsible for what, but it appears to me
that the tournament organizers don't seem to have to
much knowledge of Blood Bowl, but a lot knowledge of
Warhammer (& 40K).

The rule set shown on House-Rulez.com look very much
like the WH tournament rules. I don't know if there is
an effort to simplify the rules across all GW games,
but that doesn't seem to make much sense to me (and
others).

THE FORMAT OF THE NEW TOURNAMENT PACK IS INDEED SIMILAR TO THAT OF OTHER GAMES SYSTEMS, BUT THIS IS BECAUSE IT IS A PRACTICAL WAY TO RUN A TOURNAMENT WITH THE FACILITIES AND TIME I HAVE AVAILABLE. I HAVE WRITTEN THIS TOURNAMENT PACK AND PASSED IT ON TO THE FANATIC TEAM FOR APPROVAL AND HAVE
RECEIVED NO CRITICISM OF THE FORMAT. HOWEVER, THE MOST VALUED FEEDBACK I HAVE IS FROM THE PLAYERS IN THE EVENT ITSELF, ALTHOUGH WE ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO MAKE WHOLESALE CHANGES FOR THIS YEARS EVENT I WILL TAKE INTO ACCOUNT ANY FEEDBACK I RECEIVE AT THE WEEKEND AND TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT
WHEN REVIEWING THE RULES FOR NEXT YEAR.

I remember reading in one of the BB-Mags an acticle
from Jervis (about the new Elf team I believe) writing
about that he wanted to get away from the Warhammer
theme, because he believes that this was a mistake.
Having that in the back of my mind makes the BB 43
rule set even harder to understand.

THIS RULES SET IS IN NO WAY MOVING TOWARDS WARHAMMER OR ANY OTHER GAMES SYSTEM, IT'S SIMPLY A UNIFIED APPROACH TO A TOURNAMENT FORMAT. THIS APPROACH MAKES IT EASIER FOR STAFF & PLAYERS TO FOLLOW ACROSS A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT
EVENTS. I AM AWARE OF ALL GAMES SYSTEMS DEVELOPED BY GW AND AM OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS ON HOW I CAN CHANGE IT FOR NEXT YEAR BUT I DON'T SEE HOW SIMILARITIES TO OTHER EVENTS IN TERMS OF FORMAT IS A LEGITIMATE REASON FOR CHANGING IT. IF WHEN IT IS PLAYED, PEOPLE FIND IT DOESN'T WORK I WILL LISTEN TO THEIR CONCERNS AND TAKE IT INTO ACCOUNT WHEN THE PACK IS UPDATED, AS IT IS EVERY YEAR FOR ALL GAMES SYSTEMS.

There are a few things I would like you to reconsider
or maybe dropping me a mail and explaining what GW
thought process was behind them to make it easier to
understand.

1.) I'm all for having a differentiation between a
close victory and a blow-out, but I think one step
(win by 1TD & win by 2+TD) is sufficient to have all
players go for the higher victory, but having another
step with 3+TD in there is definatelly tough (or even
impossible) on slower and less agile teams (like e.g.
dwarves)

SEE COMMENTS ABOVE

2.) What's with the WYSIWYG, theme, squad markings and
team sheet? I believe it's Bloodbowl we are talking
about and the majority of Bloodbowl players use
miniatures which clearly show what position a player
holds. That goes the same for the markings, it should
be easy to put 11-16 numbers on each figure (same goes
for team sheet).

THESE CATEGORIES ARE THERE TO REWARD PLAYERS FOR FULFILLING THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR ENTRY INTO THE TOURNAMENT. YES THEY ARE EASY, WHICH MEANS ALL PLAYERS SHOULD HAVE NO PROBLEMS ACHIEVING THEM AND GETTING THE MARK. THERE IS OFTEN, HOWEVER, SITUATIONS WHERE FIGURES DO NOT HAVE THEIR TEAM
NUMBER OR AREN'T ALL PAINTED IN THE SAME TEAM COLOURS, IT IS THESE SITUATIONS WHERE POINTS WILL BE DROPPED. THIS IS A WAY TO ENSURE THAT PLAYERS PRESENT A TEAM AND A TEAM SHEET THAT WILL NOT DECEIVE OR CONFUSE THEIR OPPONENT BECAUSE ALL PLAYERS AND EQUIPMENT ARE CLEARLY MARKED AND IDENTIFIED.

I don't know much about the theme
part, but reading something about writing a short
essay about the team history and stuff is not what I
expect to do when I go to play a game of Blood Bowl.

QUITE HONESTLY, THIS SECTION IS A BIT OF FUN TO GET EVERYBODY INTO THE THEME OF THEIR TEAM. IF THE MAJORITY OF THE PLAYERS AT THE EVENT DON'T LIKE IT THEN WE WILL CONSIDER REMOVING IT FOR NEXT YEAR. BUT, UNLESS I GET THE FEEDBACK FROM THE EVENT ITSELF, I HAVE NO LEGITIMATE REASON FOR CHANGING THIS IN THE TOURNAMENT.

3.) I just like to express my hope that the exam will
be handed out in several languages, because many
players will come from non-english speaking countries.

THE BLOOD BOWL, LIKE ALL THE GT'S HELD IN NOTTINGHAM AT THE MOMENT, IS A UK TOURNAMENT. BECAUSE OF THIS, THE RULES AND ALL ELEMENTS OF THE TOURNAMENT ARE WRITTEN IN ENGLISH. IF INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS WISH TO TRAVEL OVER TO THE
UK TO PLAY BLOOD BOWL, THEN THEY ARE MORE THAN WELCOME, BUT IT IS STILL A UK SHOW AND IS FORMATTED ACCORDINGLY. WE ARE NOT TRYING TO EXCLUDE ANYBODY, WE ARE PURELY PROVIDING THE MOST PRACTICAL WAY TO RUN A TOURNAMENT WITH THE TIME AND FACILITIES AT OUR DISPOSAL. IN ADDITION, IT DOESN'T SEEM TO
HAVE BEEN AN ISSUE LAST YEAR AS THE OVERALL WINNER WAS IN FACT A SPANISH PLAYER (MARCOS TARRASSO OCANA) WHO DIDN'T EXPRESS ANY COMPLAINT ABOUT THE FORMAT OR LANGUAGE RESTRICTIONS WITHIN THE UK BLOOD BOWL TOURNAMENT.

4.) Next, I hope to see a changes towards reflecting
TD and CAS in the scoring.

5.) Lastly I put my pledge in for reducing the
percentage of non-playing tournament points (such as
paining, sportsmanship, team selection, knowledge) in
the overall standings, because 40% is a little too
steep in my opinion.

Let me end on a positive note: I like the game of
Blood Bowl very much and thank Jervis and GW for
bringing it out into the public and for us to play at
a great location.

LET ME END ON A POSITIVE NOTE ALSO, I VALUE THE FEEDBACK FROM PLAYERS OF THE GREAT GAME OF BLOOD BOWL. YOUR COMMENTS WILL BE ON MY MIND WHEN I REVIEW THIS TOURNAMENT PACK AS WILL THE COMMENTS AND SUGGESTIONS OF ALL PLAYERS WHO ATTEND BLOOD BOWL 43

GOOD LUCK

BRIAN ADERSON

UK TOURNAMENT MANAGER

Best regards
Torsten

_________________
Dwarves rule!!! Especially when they pass!
3rd place Underworld Cup 2003
Swiss Champion 2004
2nd place Royal RumBBL 2015 and White Star Cup 2016
.....and now Ex-Vize-Prez
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
AnthonyTBBFOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 12, 2004 - 07:32 AM



Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Toronto, ON
Posts: 1313
Location: Toronto, ON
Status: Offline
Well this is all stuff the NAF can help influence. Hopefully we can have a chat with the UK events team and talk to them about how we can help them in the future.

_________________
Anthony - Ex Presidente
www.xtbbf.org

Orion Cup - June 8, 2013
 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Reply with quote Back to top
GalakStarscraperOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 12, 2004 - 07:44 AM
Ex-Rulz Committee


Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562

Status: Offline
      AnthonyTBBF wrote:
Well this is all stuff the NAF can help influence. Hopefully we can have a chat with the UK events team and talk to them about how we can help them in the future.


This is the biggest one I see issue with Anthony that I hope the NAF can change:
      Quote:
IN ADDITION, IT DOESN'T SEEM TO
HAVE BEEN AN ISSUE LAST YEAR AS THE OVERALL WINNER WAS IN FACT A SPANISH PLAYER (MARCOS TARRASSO OCANA) WHO DIDN'T EXPRESS ANY COMPLAINT ABOUT THE FORMAT OR LANGUAGE RESTRICTIONS WITHIN THE UK BLOOD BOWL TOURNAMENT.


He also didn't have to write a team background and have 10% of his points come from a written quiz in English.

I know this guy means well ... but I'm REALLY not happy with this whole "the Blood Bowl is a UK event" shift.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Dungeonbowl rules were available in German and English ... correct.

Like I said I can live with the game scoring system. Its the quiz really when it comes right down to it ... its the quiz that offends me (especially at 10%) given that the BB pulled in folks from over 20 countries last year.

Galak
 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Reply with quote Back to top
TojurubOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 12, 2004 - 07:59 AM



Joined: Aug 18, 2003
Germany
Posts: 1520
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Doesn't happen too often, but I have to correct Galak Wink

I have seen the Dungeonbowl rules only in German...the English translation was brought into the forum by some German speaking folks, who thook the time to translate and summarize.

      Quote:

He also didn't have to write a team background and have 10% of his points come from a written quiz in English.


That was the first thing what came to my mind when I read the answer.

_________________
Dwarves rule!!! Especially when they pass!
3rd place Underworld Cup 2003
Swiss Champion 2004
2nd place Royal RumBBL 2015 and White Star Cup 2016
.....and now Ex-Vize-Prez
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
IndigoOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 12, 2004 - 08:16 AM
Da Warboss


Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
Posts: 2168
Location: England
Status: Offline
Same here.

      GW Events wrote:
I DON'T SEE HOW SIMILARITIES TO OTHER EVENTS IN TERMS OF FORMAT IS A LEGITIMATE REASON FOR CHANGING IT.


Although I think he means " I don't see how differences between different games is a legitimate reason for changing it" he's still wrong. He's comparing systems used to judge a tabletop wargame with a board game when the two are inherently different. It'd be like saying that you need a themed force if you're playing a Space Hulk tournament.

This idea about the BB being UK, or more accurately really "English-speaking" is also crap. I hope we get 51% of coaches from overseas this year to prove that wrong. It wouldn't have taken much in the 15 months between Blood Bowl tourneys to put out a request for multi-lingual coaches to produce translated versions of the quiz etc.

      GW Events wrote:
IN ADDITION, IT DOESN'T SEEM TO
HAVE BEEN AN ISSUE LAST YEAR AS THE OVERALL WINNER WAS IN FACT A SPANISH PLAYER (MARCOS TARRASSO OCANA) WHO DIDN'T EXPRESS ANY COMPLAINT ABOUT THE FORMAT OR LANGUAGE RESTRICTIONS WITHIN THE UK BLOOD BOWL TOURNAMENT.


Laughing that's probably because he doesn't speak English Wink

_________________

NAF #60
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
ThadrinOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 12, 2004 - 08:32 AM



Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Sweden
Posts: 353
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Someone need to buy Brian a clue.

_________________
Thadrin
Jag är inte svensk, men jag här bott här ett tag nu.
Member nr. 219
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
DoubleskullsOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 12, 2004 - 08:44 AM
Ex-Rulz Committee


Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
Status: Offline
Rolling Eyes If Fanatic/GW actually kept the same group organising things from year to year it might actually get better. Instead we just get random change every time.

_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Reply with quote Back to top
DeathwingOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 12, 2004 - 08:59 AM
Former President


Joined: Feb 10, 2003
England
Posts: 1289
Location: England
Status: Offline
      Doubleskulls wrote:
Rolling Eyes If Fanatic/GW actually kept the same group organising things from year to year it might actually get better. Instead we just get random change every time.


That's a litle unfair Ian, it's hardly 'random'.
Brian was heavily involved last year, even if Che has moved onwards since. We can't expect a 'staff freeze' can we?

_________________
Ex-UK NTO,ex- Senior Tourney Co-Ordinator, ex-VP and ex-President....because Lycos says that new members don't know who I was..
 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
Reply with quote Back to top
DoubleskullsOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 12, 2004 - 09:04 AM
Ex-Rulz Committee


Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
Status: Offline
No, but progression in the rule set would be nice. This is throw it away and start again.

_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Reply with quote Back to top
DeathwingOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 12, 2004 - 09:15 AM
Former President


Joined: Feb 10, 2003
England
Posts: 1289
Location: England
Status: Offline
Thads, you should be keeping criticism a little more constructive, that last post was OTT IMO.

BTW, I sent Brian a link to this thread earlier, there's some very valid points been made.

I do agree though...last year's coring system with nerfed Stars would have worked for me. As long as overall points decide the Warhammer World Cup and not the BB trophy itself then I can live with it. I still expect Skaven or Welfs to win it, but you never know. I'm gonna take 'flings and not worry about it anyway.

_________________
Ex-UK NTO,ex- Senior Tourney Co-Ordinator, ex-VP and ex-President....because Lycos says that new members don't know who I was..
 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
Reply with quote Back to top
AnthonyTBBFOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 12, 2004 - 09:16 AM



Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Toronto, ON
Posts: 1313
Location: Toronto, ON
Status: Offline
I remember Brian from last year, he's a great guy. If you have feedback I am sure he'd be up for chatting about it.

Anyway, I can understand why they are only offering the event materials in English. However, I think the NAF can help out people who speak other languages by organizing translations for those who don't speak English as a first language. I'm proposing we get a group of volunteers together that can help translate team background write-ups into English.

Any volunteers? I don't speak any other languages but I can help organize things if need be.

_________________
Anthony - Ex Presidente
www.xtbbf.org

Orion Cup - June 8, 2013
 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Reply with quote Back to top
AncalagonOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 12, 2004 - 09:25 AM



Joined: Feb 11, 2003

Posts: 165

Status: Offline
Embarassed I think I'll need help on my speech or whatever you call it.

About complaints of Tarra... well last year rules weren't like this one. Just ask him at BB (maybe Dan can translate his words)
 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger  
Reply with quote Back to top
AnthonyTBBFOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 12, 2004 - 09:31 AM



Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Toronto, ON
Posts: 1313
Location: Toronto, ON
Status: Offline
Even if you guys can translate it the best you can, an English speaker can clean it up after.

_________________
Anthony - Ex Presidente
www.xtbbf.org

Orion Cup - June 8, 2013
 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Reply with quote Back to top
Display posts from previous:     
Jump to:  
All times are
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Printable version Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Powered by PNphpBB2 © 2003-2009 The Zafenio Team
Credits