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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Mar 05, 2003 - 04:01 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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AnthonyTBBF wrote: Quote:
The team must double its TR when figuring out handicaps at the start of each game.
Tom, you may want to check this with Jervis, but I believe he meant the TR doubling to count for the winnings table as well.
If that is true the team is unplayable. I already ran the math. By their 7th game the normal gold roll for the team will be zero.
To give the math:
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A starting Ogre team using the rules you sent
me has an 8 FF as there is only one roster that
anyone with any league savvy is ever going to
use.
So if he plays a FF 9 team they get 17 dice
for an average roll of about 60k in fans ... so
focusing on the 41-60k fan bracket.
TR 100
(effective TR 200): -1 to gold roll
TR 101-112
(effective TR 202-224): -2 to gold
TR 113-125
(effective TR 226-250): -3 to gold
TR 126-137
(effective TR 252-274): -4 to gold
TR 138-150
(effective TR 276-300): -5 to gold
TR 151+
(effective TR 302+): -6 to gold
Normal gold roll is 3.5 move that up to 4 for
sake of argument and assuming we win some which
would be a 4.5 average roll.
Let's also go with 15 SPPs a game (very easy to do as the MBBL will be testing the EXP/MVP system).
Now believing that we don't lose someone to
death or retirement ... we get this:
1st game end: Gold 3 TR + 3 TR SPPs = TR 106
2nd game end: Gold 2 TR + 3 TR SPPs = TR 111
3rd game end: Gold 2 TR + 3 TR SPPs = TR 116
4th game end: Gold 1 TR + 3 TR SPPs = TR 120
5th game end: Gold 1 TR + 3 TR SPPs = TR 124
6th game end: Gold 1 TR + 3 TR SPPs = TR 128
7th game ... no gold from a normal Gold roll.
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I could be wrong ... but I seriously doubt JJ meant the team to peak at TR 128 especially since the team on average would not get enough gold (100k total above) to probably even purchase a 7th Ogre (so why have 0-11 on the roster) ... and forget ever getting a reroll for 140k. If he means for it to effect Gold, then I don't need to test the team to tell you it has zero potential in a league setting.
Galak |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 05, 2003 - 04:09 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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skummy wrote: The EXP system is a big disadvantage to low AG teams. Right now, high AG players get SPP's quickly but generally have low AV and are easily injured. Low AG players have a high AV, and earn high SPP's by outlasting their faster, more agile counterparts. It's a pretty fundamental balance in the game that I don't think the EXP system addresses.
I don't really want to get into this on the Ogre thread .. but Skummy after 2 seasons the two leading teams in my league which has used EXP from the start basically is Dwarf and Chaos. Sorry I formally reject the notion that EXP favors high AG teams based on my own league's evidence so far. Next season I might change my mind ... but I don't think so.
Galak |
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Mestari |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 05, 2003 - 11:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 407
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GalakStarscraper wrote: Okay here's the official current word from Jervis handed down to me today:
The MBBL will test 2 Ogres rosters for him:
This chain of events should prove once and for all that the BB community does have an effect on those who make the rules. Great job!
Let's just hope that we get the TBB roster to win the JJ's alternative. I don't really like the TR special rule... |
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Teemu Tokola aka Mestari
Member #52
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2003 - 05:55 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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Posts: 1562
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AnthonyTBBF wrote: Quote:
The team must double its TR when figuring out handicaps at the start of each game.
Tom, you may want to check this with Jervis, but I believe he meant the TR doubling to count for the winnings table as well.
From JJ:
Quote:
No, I *do* want it to apply to winnings too (sorry ; )) All of the feedback
I've receive on Ogre teams is that as they progress they get really tough.
It may be that simply doubling their TR is too harsh and adding a number
(say 50) is better, but I'd like to go with doubling first. Remember, the
desire here is not to create a team that can dominate a league in any way.
Best regards,
Jervis Johnson
Head Fanatic
So Anthony you were right ... double TR for the cash table too ... eh gads ... if you wanted to make sure the team is as attractive as Halflings to play this did the trick. That's the update.
Galak[/quote] |
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Indigo |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2003 - 07:58 AM
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Da Warboss
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
Posts: 2168
Location: England
Status: Offline
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although an effective way to tone down teams, in the event of an ogre dying it would be impossible to regain previous strengths.
how about the following idea - keep jervis' limitation, but for every ogre on the team, add +1 to the dice roll. This represents the Ogres natural ability to become firm fan favourites, ala Morg
This should have the desired effect that they can still have a chance of making money, allowing eventually replacements for dead players and possibly re-rolls.
Run this thru the number cruncher and see what comes out! |
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NAF #60
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2003 - 08:14 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
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Location: Kent, UK
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Quote:
No, I *do* want it to apply to winnings too (sorry ; )) All of the feedback
I've receive on Ogre teams is that as they progress they get really tough.
It may be that simply doubling their TR is too harsh and adding a number
(say 50) is better, but I'd like to go with doubling first. Remember, the
desire here is not to create a team that can dominate a league in any way.
Best regards,
Jervis Johnson
Head Fanatic
Is this a complete overreaction or what? |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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ZanzerTem |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2003 - 08:40 AM
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Joined: Feb 14, 2003
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Posts: 98
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Holy crap, the ogres are going from really good to really horrible........Cmon Jervis, get your head outta you a$$ and think a little bit  |
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Blood
Check out my teams here, courtesy of: FUMBBL.com
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Indigo |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2003 - 08:57 AM
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Da Warboss
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
Posts: 2168
Location: England
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| it's always been his intention to have goblin, halfling and ogre teams to be in there for fun value rather than competitive edge. I think we have more than enough teams to compete with, why not have some just for comedy value? The minis are welcome in any collection... |
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NAF #60
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2003 - 09:17 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
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BloodbasherMasher wrote: Holy crap, the ogres are going from really good to really horrible........Cmon Jervis, get your head outta you a$$ and think a little bit
Actually Masher, JJ wrote me in a seperate email that he wants the Ogre team to be as bad as the Halfling team.
Okay my Halfling team under LRB rules is 2-9 .... if you want the Ogre team to chalk up similar totals ... I think this rule will work ... HOWEVER, the ability to replace players will be horrible.
I'm torn here. See I want the Ogre team to suck and I mean SUCK BADLY. I want an Ogre coach to be truely challenged and be proud if he can win 1 of every 3 games. So on this note I am VERY much behind Jervis's direction with the team. The only problem is that I suspect that the rule makes the team unplayable in the long term. So how do you create a roster with ST 5 players that will only win 20% of their games is the real question here. I think the TBB roster went a long way towards doing just that, but testing will tell the story on that one.
Galak |
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Indigo |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2003 - 09:45 AM
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Da Warboss
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
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Location: England
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give them all agility 1, apart from a thrower-type
then limit them to 6 ogres, with "positional" ogres
maybe a captain figure, without bonehead? |
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NAF #60
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Shortarse |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 20, 2003 - 11:03 AM
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Joined: Mar 17, 2003
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Quote:
I'm torn here. See I want the Ogre team to suck and I mean SUCK BADLY. I want an Ogre coach to be truely challenged and be proud if he can win 1 of every 3 games. So on this note I am VERY much behind Jervis's direction with the team. The only problem is that I suspect that the rule makes the team unplayable in the long term. So how do you create a roster with ST 5 players that will only win 20% of their games is the real question here. I think the TBB roster went a long way towards doing just that, but testing will tell the story on that one.
Galak
The Kemri team has up to 4 ST 5 players how about making the Ogres 0-4 and make 0-1 "Thrower" position AG3, cost 150,000 and cant throw team-mate if they move (concentrating hard on the throw). Then just say that the gobbo's cant outnumber the ogres more than 2-1 so you end up with a max team of 15, and given how weak gobbo's are towards the end of the match the team is likely to be as many (if not more) players down than the non Ogre side?
Suggestion? |
_________________
Antoine "Shortarsed Stringfellow" Shardan. Bring out the Dwarven Amazons!!!!!
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 20, 2003 - 11:06 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 2319
Location: United States of America
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Ashardian wrote:
The Kemri team has up to 4 ST 5 players how about making the Ogres 0-4 and make 0-1 "Thrower" position AG3, cost 150,000 and cant throw team-mate if they move (concentrating hard on the throw). Then just say that the gobbo's cant outnumber the ogres more than 2-1 so you end up with a max team of 15, and given how weak gobbo's are towards the end of the match the team is likely to be as many (if not more) players down than the non Ogre side?
Suggestion?
Not bad. I think I'd rather see the team go in this direction, than have an insanely powerful ogre squad. |
_________________
aka Rob (NAF #248)
President of the Lord Borak Fan Club
Founder of the GCLU
Commissioner, TO, Goblin King, NEBBN TSO
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 21, 2003 - 07:52 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
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Ashardian wrote:
The Kemri team has up to 4 ST 5 players how about making the Ogres 0-4 and make 0-1 "Thrower" position AG3, cost 150,000 and cant throw team-mate if they move (concentrating hard on the throw). Then just say that the gobbo's cant outnumber the ogres more than 2-1 so you end up with a max team of 15, and given how weak gobbo's are towards the end of the match the team is likely to be as many (if not more) players down than the non Ogre side?
Suggestion?
Congrats ... you've obsoleted the Goblin team.
The other thing you cannot do with any suggestion is not create a team that is automatically superior to the Goblin team. IE ... the roster should not be Goblin+
Galak |
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Bevan |
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Post subject: Ogre team
Posted: Mar 22, 2003 - 04:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 13, 2003
Posts: 194
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The trouble with an Ogre team that can only expect to win 20% of their games is that coaches will take them just for the fun of winning trophies for getting the most casualties.
I would really prefer a team that could expect to win a bit more often than that but only if they go for the ball rather than ignoring it.
We already have Goblin and Orc teams that can score using throw team mate, so I'd prefer to avoid that option.
Is it possible to use ball handlers that are not Goblins. Does anyone have stats for baby Ogres? They might be weaker but more agile and Really Stupid.  |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject: Re: Ogre team
Posted: Mar 23, 2003 - 05:58 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
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Bevan wrote: Is it possible to use ball handlers that are not Goblins. Does anyone have stats for baby Ogres? They might be weaker but more agile and Really Stupid.
Sounds like the TBB Roster (Ogre roster #2) ... however that roster does have 0-4 Goblins ... but they really aren't the ball handlers when I've seen the team play ... they seem to spend most of their time assisting the Really Stupid Blockers (ie Baby Ogres).
Galak |
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