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Jonny_P |
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Post subject: Stalling turns before scoring
 Posted: Nov 15, 2004 - 09:29 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 899
Location: United States of America
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Just wondering what people think about someone standing one square away from the endzone to kill turns while they know the other team cannot reach them.
Someone (very well known and NAF ranked high) did that to me at a recent tournament. He then decided to score after standing there for 3 turns, and he left me one turn left in the first half. He said, "you can't score in one turn, so I'll score now". I did try to reach him as well but he had my guys blocked out pretty good, not to mentioned many KO's on that drive.
I gave him the lowest possible sportsmanship points. He didn't violate any rules, but I don't feel it's very good sportsmanship.
Jon |
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Mordredd |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2004 - 10:15 AM
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Joined: Mar 03, 2003
England
Posts: 728
Location: England
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| This has been pretty much done to death in the "Shamefull way to win a match...? " thread (with poll) in this section. Have a read through it; it's only 4 pages long... |
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject: Re: Stalling turns before scoring
Posted: Nov 15, 2004 - 10:18 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
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Location: Canada
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jpeletis wrote: I gave him the lowest possible sportsmanship points. He didn't violate any rules, but I don't feel it's very good sportsmanship.
And this is where the whole subjectivity of the sportsmanship score really starts to show. To give this individual the lowest score just because he did that, I think is extreme. You even said yourself that he didn't violate any rules and that you felt it wasn't very sporting - but was it very "unsportsmanlike"?.
I agree that I do not like it very much, but remember that we do go to a tournament to win, and while it's nice to give the other guy a shot, why should you? I mean, if I am playing dwarves and my opponent is skaven, you're damn right I am going to delay if possible - that is only sound tactics! The skaven score too damn quickly!
You have to consider the strengths of each team. If you are a poundy slow team (like dwarves) then you do want to score slowly and cause lots of injuries on the way. Wood elves and skaven aren't very good at this because as they delay they also tend to get a lot more injuries.
If you don't like it then play halflings or goblins, as they can score in one turn if they have to.
To be honest it sounds like you were the one more deserving of the low sportsmanship score.
Spazz |
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Jonny_P |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2004 - 11:09 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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I disagree spaz. He played Wood Elves and I played Dark Elves. He got a catcher to the end and realisticly I could not get to him with some 6 MA lineman left. The tournament ranked your four games for sportsmanship. I gave him 4th out of 4. My top game was against a great sportsman and we had a blast playing, and my next two were good all around fun games. This opponent took last. It wasn't that fun, not becuase I lost, but because the way I lost.
He played a fast team and could have realistically gotten the back and scored again in those other 3 turns.
I understand playing to win, but that just plain sucks. If you did it to me, I'd give you crappy sportsman scores too. This is a game based on pushing little metal guys around. You can't take that too seriously.
And you say I was deserving of the low sportsman score? I don't see it. I'm a good sport win or lose and don't pull shady things like that.
I've been playing blood bowl since 1992, so I'm not a newbie either.
Mordredd, thanks for the post, I'll check it out. |
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2004 - 11:52 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
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Well your first post was vague on a couple of those points. For example, I did not know what your team and his team were.
Also I was not aware that there was a ranking system in place for the Sporsmanship score so that one person had to be 4th place, and because of that it was him. To my mind (as I have seen most other tourneys played this way) sportsmanship scores are awarded each game with a possible score of 1 - 4 depending on how they behaved in that particular game. I thought that this was the case and you gave him a 1 just because he stalled. To me that looked like you were giving him a real kick in the head for a relatively small thing (when compared to throwing models, tantrums and cheating). This was why I said you were the poor sport.
But I still hold to the point that people would do it. I guess you have to weigh out how much does the overall win mean to you? For some people their NAF rankings, the opportunity to win a tournament, etc, is very important, and sure they will stall.
Little metal models or not - people do take it seriously. I mean look at chess!
Spazz |
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LouisX |
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Posted: Nov 15, 2004 - 11:59 AM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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I hate it. I did it. I whipped myself for doing it. 
I sometime take a turn or 2 when I have a good position to get some casualties. But usually, ball controlling isn't good when you're playing fast teams. You're loosing turns to score more TDs.
On the other hand, 3 turns isn't that bad. And dwarves can't really play otherwise...unless they're really beating you up.
another thing is that when your opponent leaves you with no other options than dodging 5+,5+,6+,2 dice against you and you make it, he can't complain |
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Insidious&French
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TuernRedvenom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2004 - 12:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 28, 2003
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Nothing wrong with stalling IMHO. If you don't like it then put some pressure on the carrier so he can't afford to. Clock management is all part of the game, just like in the NFL.
Only time when I wouldn't do it is when I'm 2 td's up and the other guy is taking such a beating he can never come back in the game. But even then I would think it's fair (even tough I wouldn't do it myself). |
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Grumbledook |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2004 - 12:22 PM
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bottom line is, he only was able to do that cause you didn't defend well/deep enough
if you havn't left someone back deep enough to cover for that why should he not take advantage of it?
now I will usually stall and give the other guy 2 turns to score, though i may think twice if its getting twards the business end of the tournament, or if they still have rerolls left
why should i let the other guy have a good chance of beating me when I am already outplaying him?
people moaning about stalling is the one thing that really winds me up about the game
I tihnk I have only been stalled against once in a tournament and that was by tim, purely because he got really lucky on his armour rolls, I rolled loads of skulls and I couldn't stop his cage. To his credit though he left me 2 turns to score back on him (which it turns out I managed) and I ended up beating him. If you aren't going to leave people back to defend your endzone, then expect to be out manouvoured, its not bad sportsmanship to use better tatics. |
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Jon
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Mordredd |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2004 - 12:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 03, 2003
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LouisX wrote: another thing is that when your opponent leaves you with no other options than dodging 5+,5+,6+,2 dice against you and you make it, he can't complain
Pretty much what happened to me 3 turns from the end of one game at Spikey, whilst going for a draw. Stopped me equalising too. @!#£$* Gutter Runners.  |
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Grasshopper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2004 - 12:26 PM
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Joined: Jun 07, 2003
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"This is a game based on pushing little metal guys around. You can't take that too seriously. "
Well... maybe it's just me but, sounds like you're taking this a little too seriously as well, no? |
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Hoshi_Komi |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2004 - 12:33 PM
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I'll stall one turn....on turn 7. because if I score...there's no way I can score again barring a blitz....
If I can score before turn 7, I'll take it. But usually when I play my khemri it takes me 8 turns to get down the pitch. |
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Jonny_P |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2004 - 12:38 PM
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No I'm not actually, I just asked what people thought of giving someone poor sportsmanship scores for stalling. To win at all costs in a table top board game is stupid. Especially when you meet someone for the first time. What a great impression. It's like "Hey buddy, I've read your posts for years on the internet and like what you had to say. Now that I finally played you, however, you resorted to lame stalling tactics to win. Nice job."
I love playing GW games. But it's just a game, meant to be played for fun and enjoyment. Why stall the game? I understand to win, but I don't want to win like that. |
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Grumbledook |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2004 - 12:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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i disagree that stalling is lame though
i don't see that it has anything to do with sportsmanship, just like fouling, one turn scoring or anything else along those lines
like i said if you don't want someone to stall on you then stop them on the pitch |
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Aramil |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2004 - 12:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 17, 2003
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Jonny_P |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2004 - 01:02 PM
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I hear ya Aaramil. If I had a slow team, I would do it as well. And I guess I'll just have to live with that is how some people play.
On a side note. I do think Sportsmanship points given by oppoents are dumb. Subconsciously, other factors may pop into your head about your points for that person. You may have rolled bad, and even though you say that won't have a factor on your decision, maybe it does for some people.
I really don't think sportsmanship (or painting for that matter) should come into play in a tournament. Separate awards are great though for those things though. Maybe impartial judges monitoring the games for attitudes and behaviors or something, or sensing both coaches enjoyment factor. In some cases it's the other way around and all yoru games were against fantastic opponents, who do you penalize then?
Sorry for off topic, it just got me thinking. |
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