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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Nov 17, 2004 - 06:41 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
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Zombie wrote: Doing everything in your power to win ... is important.
No disrespect but that is cr*p.
So if you believe your chances of winning are increased but upsetting your opponent all the way through the game then you should? I know (if I was a complete git) I could argue about whether dice were legal, call people for IP. Argue about time limits (either way) - anything to disturb my opponent's concentration and focus. Or alternatively just insult my opponent continuously or make farting noises (well I do that anyway, but it isn't intentional  ).
The important criteria is which you allow your pursuit of victory override the desire for you both to have an enjoyable time. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 17, 2004 - 06:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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| Let me rephrase that : "doing everything in your power on the board to win is important". |
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They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 17, 2004 - 11:41 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
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| I wouldn't mark someone down for stalling, but I have no problem with deducting sportsmanship marks for it. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Grumbledook |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 12:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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which is exactly why it shouldn't be imcorperated into the final scores
can't say i have ever played a complete gompa in any tournament and the ones that didn't bother with sporting scores, well i noticed no difference in the games to the tournaments that did
being sporting should be something you do anyway not cause the rules demand it |
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'Boomshanker an Interception'
Jon
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 03:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Grumbledook wrote: being sporting should be something you do anyway not cause the rules demand it
Finally a sensible post from Grum.  |
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_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 05:49 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
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Grumbledook wrote: can't say i have ever played a complete gompa in any tournament and the ones that didn't bother with sporting scores, well i noticed no difference in the games to the tournaments that did
I'd prefer a system that made it extremely difficult for an arsehole to win (a la Dungeon Bowl) but I haven't found sportsmanship to be an issue in any independent tournament.
I do believe tournaments ought to have a prize for the best sportsman/most entertaining opponent whatever because its an important aspect of the hobby that deserves encouragement. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 18, 2004 - 05:53 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
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Dave wrote: IF stalling is not unsportsmanlike, isn't it unsportmanlike to classify the guy who doesn't like stalling and thus scores quickly because HE feels that is more fun for the BOTH of you as an unsportsmanlike person ??? Played my Halflings vs Chaos at the Chaos Cup. I've never lost against Chaos with Flings in league or tournament play ... I LOVE Chaos ... ANYWAY. )side note: Darkson is trying to change that right now .. but end of the first half has us at 0-0 and his team was 80+ TR points higher ... anyway.)
My opponent at the Chaos Cup was really PISSED off because I beat him 5-0. He felt I didn't need to run up the score ... but my only other option was playing stall ball which I'm not a fan of.
He was so upset that he threw a 2 dice my choice block against my treeman with a Chaos Warrior and when he rolled Pow and Skull ... he reminded me that I didn't "have" to take the Skull.  I tried to be a good coach ... but the game really depressed him .... wasn't surprised to see he rated me last for sportsmanship ... oh well ... I tried to cheer him up ... heck I was actually silently cheering him on for about the last 4 turns. Got last place from another oppponent at the Chaos Cup who I set up on my turn 8 of the 2nd half for the last turn of the game in a formation solely meant to CAS one of his players for the 5 bonus points that it meant. It worked. He wasn't amused as I set up everyone on the LOS and had no one back to even try to catch the ball or pick it up.
All that said .. I still think sportsmanship is important for an overall best coach award ... but I'm willing to remove it from the 1st and 2nd place decisions for my next tournaments.
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 19, 2004 - 05:07 AM
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| And both those example show to me why sportsmanship is a bad way of decideing tournaments. Neither of those 2 examples galak listed are worthy of "marking down" imo. I expect someone to go for TD or Cas, especially in a scoring system where they count. To mark someone down for doing so is imo, more unsporting than the actual onfield event. |
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_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
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Mordredd |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 19, 2004 - 05:16 AM
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Joined: Mar 03, 2003
England
Posts: 728
Location: England
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| No I think his examples show the big flaw in a sportsmanship system that forces you to rank your opponents rather than mark them critically on their actual level of sportsmanship. |
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Jonny_P |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 19, 2004 - 01:06 PM
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| Galak, I would have loved to have a crack at those Iron Chefs! I tied against another Halfling team. Great game....damn those special seasonings!!!!!!!! |
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Disdane |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 19, 2004 - 02:26 PM
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Doubleskulls wrote:
I wouldn't mark someone down for stalling, but I have no problem with deducting sportsmanship marks for it.
Would you deduct sportmanship marks for someone playing Skaven using their teams ability to score in one turn? What you call stalling I would call smart ball control.
I've played against a very strong Orc team that used ball control to win all of their games. They would always chose to kick off in the first half concede the score unless there was a quick turnover. Then get the ball back with plenty of time left to score in the first half. Start the second half with the score tied 1 - 1 use ball control to score with only 1 turn left. End result season champions.
I don't see how good tatics can be translated into poor sportsmanship. To me that would be name calling, making snide remarks and bragging. |
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 19, 2004 - 03:53 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
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If you feel your opponent's on pitch tactics have effected your enjoyment of the game then I have no problem with you deducting sportsmanship marks as a result. The legality of those tactics is irrelevant.
Galak's opponent's I'd consider amazingly petty, but if they really felt his tactics reduced their enjoyment then its fair enough. In reality it sounds like they were both sore losers and were looking for any excuse to penalise someone who kicked their arse with 'flings. This is the fundamental problem with sportsmanship - people mark the game, not the opponent.
BTW Antony - I really like the idea of check boxes. However can you get a list of no more than say 5 questions that gives reasonable coverage? If so its worth including in the tournament pack. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Disdane |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 19, 2004 - 04:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 19, 2004
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| So it's not really sportsmanship that is at question. It's how much did you enjoy playing Bloodbowl against this person. |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 19, 2004 - 07:49 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
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Doubleskulls wrote: Galak's opponent's I'd consider amazingly petty, but if they really felt his tactics reduced their enjoyment then its fair enough. In reality it sounds like they were both sore losers and were looking for any excuse to penalise someone who kicked their arse with 'flings. This is the fundamental problem with sportsmanship - people mark the game, not the opponent.
Interesting note on the Chaos Cup to me.
I played 2 NAF coaches and 2 non-NAF coaches. The two non-NAF coaches marked me last for sportsmanship and the two NAF coaches gave me decent marks overall.
Both of the games against the non-NAF folks I had to explain a lot of rules to them. Now I try to be nice when I do this ... but when they both during the game questioned whether I actually knew the rule or not ... I said I was 100% sure but was more than willing to show them in the rulebook if they wanted to see it. NOW ... I "thought" I did this in a friendly and helpful manner ... but ... strong confidence in knowing the rules quickly can be twisted into arrogance. So playing two rookie coaches may have been a side effect of my sportsmanship points as well.
I'm glad to see the debate on the sportsmanship ... many thoughts on how to do this next year.
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garth |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 19, 2004 - 07:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 28, 2004
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I played in my first tournament recently (Death Bowl II) and I was a REAL rookie. My first game (Zombie I think) really took the time to patiently go over the rules with me, and even suggested some strategy. Most other coaches clearly explained the strengths and limitations of the team they were playing, and even provided some hints about how to exploit these limitations.
Clearly, these coaches deserved (and were awarded) high sportsmanship marks. If anything, I may have deserved lower ones, since I probably made thier games a little slow and boring! Kudos to these fine BB representatives! |
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Garth Elliott
Chesterville, Ontario, Canada
"Ohhhh, what I'm gonna do to you...." Ren Hoek
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