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Rakarth |
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Post subject: Holding up the game
 Posted: Sep 02, 2005 - 06:22 AM
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Joined: Sep 02, 2005
Posts: 15
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I thougth I'd post this topic as i'm sure a lot of people have opinions on the subject.
I have played a few games recently where my opponent's have managed to get the ball into a box or other position where it is nigh on impossible to get to it without your oppenent moving to your endzone to force a touch down.
Now I personally find it against the ethos of the game. You are meant to batter people senseless, and when given the opportunity, to score. The tactic of holding the ball on purpose, when you have the ability to play for a touchdown is very annoying. it just makes for a really annoying, slow game and takes the fun out of it.
If I have the opportunty to score, I will always make the attempt (albeit after i have made a couple of blocks, if it is not critical to make the touchdown), even if it means my opponent may have enough turns to score back. This is all part of bloodbowl.
Just wanted to get your opinions on the matter. By the way, I play with both Undead and Darkelves, so am looking at this from both styles of play. |
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slup |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 02, 2005 - 07:06 AM
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Big Mek
Joined: May 06, 2004
Undisclosed
Posts: 455
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Status: Offline
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Running the clock as it is called is a viable tactic, but it is just as annoying as 1 turn scorers.
Most coaches find it harder to succesfully manage the clock against skilled opponents.
Countermeasures are:
1.: Get in the way
Make it hard for him to advance down the field by opstructing his path with players, this way he will not be able to score in turn 8 because he hasn't advanced enough down the field.
Do not get into physical contact, keep 1 square between your players and his.
2.:Go for the ball.
Elven teams with leap and strip ball should try and go for the ballhandler and release him of his duties.
The same should big guys with break tackle.
Remember to remove those defensive assists.
3.: Quarterbacksack
Fast teams (human, skaven) may kick deep w/kick and attact the ballhandler before he enters the cage.
4.: Overwhelming
Strong guardheavy teams (chaos, orc, dwarves) should attack a corner of the cage and put some ST4 guardmen next to the ballhandler.
The rest of the team should surround the cage as close as possible, ie. get in his face, making it hard for him to rearrange his players.
This should hopefully force the opponents ballhandler to dodge away with risk of failing (gotta love diving tackle) or leave players a direct hit at the ballhandler. |
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Rakarth |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 02, 2005 - 07:23 AM
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Joined: Sep 02, 2005
Posts: 15
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| Yeah, i definately use the points under number 1, especially when playing with my elves, although this is not as easy with non elf teams. The other difficulty is when this tactic is used with teams early on in tournaments, or in friendlies, when there are few skills about to help attack the cage's. |
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TuernRedvenom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 02, 2005 - 09:48 AM
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Joined: Dec 28, 2003
Posts: 142
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Stalling is a perfecly valid tactic UNLESS you've already pounded your opponent into the ground and are 2-0 up or you are just stalling to foul off the few remainders.
If you don't want want me to stall with my dwarves vs your wood elves then make me! Put the pressure on my team. But don't whine about stalling. Wood Elves can easily score in 2 turns, dwarves can't. In that case stalling is called playing your team's strengths. It's a tactic. Deal with it. (and yes, I also play agilty teams and bashy teams)
Actually stalling is perfectly in line with the ethos of the game. Many people stall because they can cause more carnage, which is the bottom line of the game. Another part of the ethos is sports ethos, and as such you do everything within the rules to win the game. Stalling is 100% within the rules. Besides, NFL football has clock management too.  |
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dmchale |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 02, 2005 - 11:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 22, 2005
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i think stalling is viable when the team about to score needs to manage the clock to try and secure a win. If I'm playing your woodies or skaven, you can be darn sure if it's late in the half I'm going to do everything in my power to score in turn 8 and remove your chances of tying the game again/winning after I score the tying run. Like TRV said tho, if you're up 2-0, about to be 3-0, and stalling, what's the point?
That said, it also annoys me when people stall against me. I tend to employ the "foul the heck out of the strongest player I can find" method to force my opponent's hand and get him to score before I cause further damage against his precious player. It's often too time-consuming to impractical to try and put pressure on the cage that's sitting 2 squares from the endzone, you're often just sending your players off to be slaughtered. I had an opponent once do that to me while I was stalling... sending 1 player at a time to try and pressure my 4-person cage (including the BC). Every time he did, before the player got all the way to me, I'd send the protectors out to meet him and lay down the smack. After the 3rd guy in a row got KO/cas'd, he finally wised up and attacked some of my weaker players backfield, at which point I walked in to set up for the next kickoff. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 02, 2005 - 01:40 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 2319
Location: United States of America
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| Managing the clock is part of football |
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Rakarth |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 02, 2005 - 02:24 PM
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Joined: Sep 02, 2005
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Yeah, I have no problem with "manaing the clock", but totally wasting it I feel is a bit manipulative, but then that is a matter of opinion I guess.
The tactic itself is not usually an issue in itself, as i am usually capable of getting round the problem, being an experienced and more than capable player, and I have not lost a game for a while, its the fact that some people feel they have to do it to try and win.
Reminds me of Italians in football, standing with the ball on the corner of the pitch, just so the opponent can't score, and we all know how unfair and unsportsman like that is! |
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TuernRedvenom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 04, 2005 - 11:11 AM
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Joined: Dec 28, 2003
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Rakarth wrote:
Reminds me of Italians in football, standing with the ball on the corner of the pitch, just so the opponent can't score, and we all know how unfair and unsportsman like that is!
Why is that unfair? The opposing team can try to win the ball can't he? There's nothing unfair about it. It just sucks for the neutral supporter. |
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SteelThunder |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 05, 2005 - 10:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 25, 2003
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Location: United States of America
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Running down the clock, as many mentioned is a viable tactic. It may not be the nicest around, but niether is fouling. I've done it and have had it done against me. But most times it has actually cost me games. In a tourney in Baltimore I was stalling out to hold for 1 more turn and then score and tie an elf opponent. He got a lucky break, got into my dwarf cage and knocked the ball loose. It bounced out of bounds. He then retrieved it on the throw in and managed to score the next turn. Not only did I not score and tie, but I ended up losing the match, and the tie would have won the tourney!
Conversely, in a recent playoff game in the AGBBL, my norse opponent tried to stall out. I was able to break a troll slayer free and put a tackle zone on his ball carrier. I then managed to get some blockers out to get in the way of his other runners. His delay cost him a player as I started to just pound his players untill he would score or die.
It may not be a fun tactic, but when trying to win, it can be effective. My only suggestion is to gang-tackle (and foul if you must), a player on his team and force him to score or take a chance and swarm the cage. |
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Benevolence, Mercy, Discipline, Pain. (Clan Steel Thunder's Motto).
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Rakarth |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 05:45 AM
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Joined: Sep 02, 2005
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| AG 5 and leap works for me, especially with strip ball and tackle... |
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KarlLagerbottom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 07:26 AM
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Joined: May 25, 2004
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Quote:
The tactic itself is not usually an issue in itself, as i am usually capable of getting round the problem, being an experienced and more than capable player, and I have not lost a game for a while ...
Not buying this...if you were so good that you have been undefeated for a long period of time...you wouldn't take the time to whine about the tactics of your obviously inferior opponents.
Quote: Reminds me of Italians in football...
Gee I can't see how this might be offensinve to Italians out there. |
_________________
Karl Lagerbottom - Dwarf Blocker of Renown
NAF Member #5236
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Rakarth |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 08:22 AM
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Joined: Sep 02, 2005
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| [quote="KarlLagerbottom"] Quote:
Not buying this...if you were so good that you have been undefeated for a long period of time...you wouldn't take the time to whine about the tactics of your obviously inferior opponents.
As I said not a problem, just takes the fun out of a game, and it is bad when a coach has to resort to those sort of tactics and breakdown the fun of the gameplay. |
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Paul |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 08:54 AM
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Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Canada
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Location: Canada
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How is it bad??
If I'm playing Dwarfs, and you're playing Wood Elfs or Skaven, its dumb for me to score as soon as I can, becasue I know that you'll just do the same. If I take 8 turns to score in the first half, I'm winning in the second half. You score early and then I eat up the remaning 6 or 7 turns for me to score and win the game 2-1.
Its a perficlty legit strategy. Yea, it may take some of the fun out of the game, but so does playing a guy with 4 or 5 dirty players, or so does playing a guy with 2 or 3 gutters who can score in a turn. They're all perfictly legal and my advice would be to come up with a way to counteract this and do it. |
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KarlLagerbottom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 11:27 AM
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Joined: May 25, 2004
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Quote:
As I said not a problem, just takes the fun out of a game, and it is bad when a coach has to resort to those sort of tactics and breakdown the fun of the gameplay.
Look at this from their perspective...how fun is it to lose time after time to the same coach? If they can not compete with you in a more wide-open style of game...they are going to have to try another tactic.
And by the way...yes, you can have fun playing Blood Bowl even if you lose, but it is a competition...and I'm sure that your downtrodden opponents might like to win once in a while. If you don't like how they are trying to stop you...then you do something different to change up the experience for them. Why don't you try a different team or different tactic yourself to at least change-up the way you beat them? They might still be losing, but at least the variety will keep them interested.
EDIT:
Rakarth wrote: AG 5 and leap works for me, especially with strip ball and tackle...
P.S. I'm quite sure that your Stalling Dwarf Opponent feels that the combo above is manipulative and not too fun to play against. While that is an awesome combo for you...I'm sure that your opponent dreads playing against the "Nearly Automatic Cage Breaker" that you describe. I personally have no problem with either...but it is a give and take. if you feel that certain non-elf tactics sapp the fun from the game...then stop sticking it to them to the hilt with the killer elf-combo.
OR...keep playing your way...and let them play their way without complaining. |
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Karl Lagerbottom - Dwarf Blocker of Renown
NAF Member #5236
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SteelThunder |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 02:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 25, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 83
Location: United States of America
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There are tactics to handle players like the AG-5 elf in question. You simply have to play with an open cage, allowing him to get in and once he's in, you swarm him and crush him.
Enter if you dare elf. |
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Benevolence, Mercy, Discipline, Pain. (Clan Steel Thunder's Motto).
NAF#2583
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