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Shepherd |
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Post subject: You know, I'm just not digging the Skaven.
 Posted: Sep 15, 2005 - 09:57 AM
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Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 34
Status: Offline
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I'm on my eight season game with my Skaven team, and ... I dunno, I find it more stressful and anxious play than actually "enjoyable." I guess it's because I've been weaned on Chaos Dwarves, Undead and Necromancer teams... I spend most of my time worrying about armour breaks and Gutter Runners getting squished (after the little beasts monopolize all my SPP) than I do enjoying play.
No real reason for posting this other than to just kind of generally angst -- even when the team wins, it's stressful, and I find myself struggling just to field 11 players. The Ogre team in our league routinely kills or SIs a player or two each game, and I'm not looking forward to my next game vs. the Undead.
Is there a Joy of Skaven thing that I'm somehow missing? Granted, they move quickly, but with low armour and (generally) mediocre agility, they don't seem to enjoy the advantages of the other teams. Mobility is great, but isn't really making the team fun for me. |
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 15, 2005 - 12:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3953
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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There is no joy in playing skaven. I played them before and learned that lesson the hard way!  Go for more armour baby!
That is also why Clan-Skaven is such a miserable bastard!  |
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#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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Clan_Skaven |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 15, 2005 - 01:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Posts: 2604
Location: Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Status: Offline
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| Mutations brings joy to every skaven coach! |
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"2006 SPIKE Champion!"
"Death-Bowl IV & V, Most Casualties!, Death-Bowl VI Best Team!"
"2008 Dagger Bowl Champion"
Host of the Warpstone Cup, Q'ermitt Bowl & the Hope Bowl
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 15, 2005 - 01:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3953
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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| Yeah, Rod was so happy when he got his Very Long Legs! |
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#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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Shepherd |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 15, 2005 - 02:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 34
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| That might be part of the problem ... 0 doubles on 11 skill rolls to date. So no stat-ups, no mutations. |
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Paul |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 15, 2005 - 02:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Canada
Posts: 422
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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no doubles hurts
What I like about playing Skaven is I can score with 3 or 4 guys on the field, in about 1 or 2 turns. Yea its not easy to do, but you can pull it off way better than dwarfs.
When you're playing Skaven, you pretty much have to go with the "plenty more where they came from" mind of thinking. yea you're guys are going to get hit and hurt more often than Chaos Dwarfs or Undead, and if thats a problem to you, then you might not want to play them.
I actually find it more nerve racking to play a Dwarf team when its my opponents turn. I expect my skaven guys to get hurt, and I do what I can to protect them. The Dwarfs are pretty much expected to take the hit and get up again, but when your opponent scores a 10+ on the armor roll, then it gets a little anxious because you know the guy shouldn't get hurt but he will.
I don't know what skills you took for your gutters, but with no doubles, I'd take Block and Side Step as your first two. They get really annoying to your opponent then, sure they might get two dice, but they gotta roll a  or you're laughing as you just step away from everyone |
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KarlLagerbottom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 15, 2005 - 03:32 PM
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Joined: May 25, 2004
Undisclosed
Posts: 1148
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The joy of the Skaven is how forgiving they are because of the speed. The real key to this team is learning how to use the Storm Vermin and Rat Ogre to full effectiveness. They provide the stability for the team. The Gutter Runners are the Wild Cards and can pull of a miracle when you need them...they are never out of the play...it's nearly impossible to be over aggressive with them.
You can't sweat the AV7...its just a fact of life with the skaven. Engage when you have to, avoid when you can, and play fast and loose. Have fun!
-RobO
P.S. Just out of curiosity...what have you done with your 11 Skill ups? |
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Karl Lagerbottom - Dwarf Blocker of Renown
NAF Member #5236
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 15, 2005 - 05:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3953
Location: Canada
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The joy of playing Skaven with their AV7 is the same joy that you would feel playing
 Khemri with their AG2
Chaos with their lack of starting positional players
Nurgle with their relatively low armour and no apothecary
Any elf team for their high player cost
Dwarves for their low movement
Humans for their overall averageness
My advice is to pick up a team of halflings. Play those squishy little bastards for a season and see what a really sucky team feels like. Then when you go back to Skaven you will be crying for joy as your players do not go <splat> on the AV roll of 7. You will shout "hallelujah" as you can move faster than a dwarf with the trots. You will sing the praises of Nuffle of as you finally roll those doubles and are able to mutate one of your rats.
Edit- Or you may just find that you like halflings so much, that you will keep them on for another season!  |
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#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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Khaine |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 17, 2005 - 08:56 AM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2003
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| I'm currently playing Pro Elves in my league and I was actually amazed at how few casualties I actually took <won the cas battle 3-2 with only one MNG> AV7 is a bit of a pain, and if I had it to do over just for sanity sake I would have played my khemri. Regen on everything just makes me happy happy. But I do have to admit being able to score in two turns with reliable certainty is very impressive. The AV 7 is a pain, but it's a fair trade for the movement. I find that I have a great deal of oppurtinity to setup very nice blocks by dodging away and using my catcher to blitz. I was going to play skaven just for the off chance I could get a mutation or two, but I don't like the fact that gutter runners are so fragile. Str 2 catchers just blow goats. |
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Touch my Mini's and Pull Back A Stump!!!!!
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 17, 2005 - 09:33 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
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Posts: 3953
Location: Canada
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It may sound over-simplistic, but really the way to beat the AV7 is to not get hit. The way to do that is to hit more than you are hit. Do not leave yourself in tackle zones, which means that your opponent can only do one blitz per turn. Then when they advance into your zones, then you start to move in assists and get a load of 2D blocks.
It is amazing how well any team can play the blocking game if they are able to get a majority of hits! |
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#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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Shepherd |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 18, 2005 - 08:55 AM
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Joined: Aug 11, 2005
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Paul wrote:
I don't know what skills you took for your gutters, but with no doubles, I'd take Block and Side Step as your first two. They get really annoying to your opponent then, sure they might get two dice, but they gotta roll a or you're laughing as you just step away from everyone
I've been taking Block first on all, but put Side Step on one and Leap on another. Leap's been fantastic, as if I'm anywhere in the opponent's half and standing, it's a hand-off and -- generally speaking -- a 3+ Leap and a 1+ dodge to score.
Most of my survival strategies just involve running like crazy and scoring so the teams have to set up before I get pounded into the dirt, then avoidance and "kamikaze raids" on the opponent's cage. Obviously my most shining moments come when he fails to pick up the ball and I can swarm his end of the field. |
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Shepherd |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 18, 2005 - 09:24 AM
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Spazzfist wrote: Do not leave yourself in tackle zones, which means that your opponent can only do one blitz per turn.
That's where my "they're not elves" angst sets in. Since the general AG is 3, that's a LOT of 3+ dodges per turn to get out of TZs. I generally find when playing a bashier team they advance on their first turn, and then it's either a LOT of 3+ dodges or a general getting-pounded sort of scenario. |
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Paul |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 18, 2005 - 11:27 AM
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Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Canada
Posts: 422
Location: Canada
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Quote:
That's where my "they're not elves" angst sets in
Yea, its 3+dodges, but, take any free players you have, give the guy an assist, and block the guy away from him. Skaven are not elves. They can hit.
A push is all you need, so if you can get a 2 die hit, you got a pretty good shot of getting the guy away from you. |
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 19, 2005 - 09:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
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Posts: 3953
Location: Canada
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Shepherd wrote: Spazzfist wrote: Do not leave yourself in tackle zones, which means that your opponent can only do one blitz per turn.
That's where my "they're not elves" angst sets in. Since the general AG is 3, that's a LOT of 3+ dodges per turn to get out of TZs.
Who said anything about dodging? Hit them! You may have to do one or two to try to get those 2D blocks, or to get away from a black orc or ogre, but otherwise hit 'em! Hit them before they hit you! Then when they are pushed away or on their butt, do not follow up. |
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#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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Shepherd |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 19, 2005 - 08:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 11, 2005
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Paul wrote: Quote:
That's where my "they're not elves" angst sets in
Yea, its 3+dodges, but, take any free players you have, give the guy an assist, and block the guy away from him. Skaven are not elves. They can hit.
...but elves don't have four ST2 players with AV7. They've got the mobility, better AG, and they're stronger to boot.
I hear what you're saying, but take tonight for instance, vs. Undead:
On defense: 3 linerats on the LOS. Prone, stun, KO. Blitz on my SV: prone.
Suddenly I'm at a one-man disadvantage, and just getting away from the mummies means 3+ dodges. The Gutters can run in to give assists, but then I'm putting all my gutters in blitz range of his players with block for what? A pushback.
I can score in two or three turns routinely. Pretty much ALWAYS, except when I'm playing ogres (can't crack his defensive line).
But defending... it seems pointless. My players are weaker than his players, more fragile than his players, and except for the Gutters, not much faster than his wights and ghouls. I wind up with 3+ dodges to escape from the mummies, which I generally fail, or negative-dice blocks against mummies with Block.
He forms a cage on the second turn of his offense, and all I can do from then on is do the "rolling distraction" where I try to put a line of interference a few squares in front of the cage to slow him down -- which results in a steady stream of stuns, KOs and injuries, creating more holes in my defense -- or blitz away at one corner of the cage, which then just puts my players in a position to get blocked away at the beginning of his next turn.
My skill rolls have been normal for 14/14 rolls except for one +AG on a Gutter, which I took for sneaking the ball out of tight spots. But except for quick scoring, the Gutters have been pretty useless. They can lend support, but then the get the old blitz-knockdown-armor crack on the next turn.
It's been a very discouraging season. My deaths and retirements equal that of the other five teams in the league COMBINED. I'm running an SI or RIP every game, have zero mutations to date, and find any attempt to defend just results in rapid eradication.
I know I'm just being grumpy, but without crossing your fingers and hoping for lots of doubles on your skill rolls, I really don't see the appeal. I just seem to be the league punching bag.
- Matt |
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