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Grotuk |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Nov 14, 2006 - 02:44 AM
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Joined: Sep 28, 2004
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Posts: 49
Location: United States of America
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The biggest problem for do it separately is that europeans not in their national team probably are not going to meet any player from the outside of Europe. This makes too less interesting the world cup.
My idea is to make first day open, the 8 best players of each country goes to the Team tourney and the rest plays the individual tournament.
Just an idea. |
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Emberbreeze |
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Posted: Nov 14, 2006 - 03:46 AM
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| I do like the 1st day team qualifier idea. |
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Mootaz |
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Posted: Nov 14, 2006 - 05:41 AM
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Joined: Jun 16, 2005
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Posts: 102
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
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| I also like the first day qualifier. And the drawing of the first round should perhaps be biased towards meeting players/teams from outside your continent. This is of course not always possible, but it would be stupid to have two europeans play and on the next table an american plays against a canadian in game 1. |
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Bevan |
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Posted: Nov 14, 2006 - 12:25 PM
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Grotuk wrote: My idea is to make first day open, the 8 best players of each country goes to the Team tourney and the rest plays the individual tournament.
It will decrease the value of the individual tournament for everyone involved if all the best players are removed after the first day. If I come 85th in the individual event that should mean 85th and not 185th.  |
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Grotuk |
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Posted: Nov 14, 2006 - 12:51 PM
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Joined: Sep 28, 2004
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Location: United States of America
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Its the same if the best players plays for their nations from the first day.
And if you already know that you are not in your national team...and you are not going to play some of the better or the most known players in the world...that takes off a lot of interest from the individual tournament.
Thats what i mean. We need to keep both competitions interesting for all the attenders. |
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aerofool |
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Posted: Nov 14, 2006 - 03:34 PM
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Joined: Mar 24, 2003
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Location: USA
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Grotuk wrote: Its the same if the best players plays for their nations from the first day.
And if you already know that you are not in your national team...and you are not going to play some of the better or the most known players in the world...that takes off a lot of interest from the individual tournament.
Thats what i mean. We need to keep both competitions interesting for all the attenders.
For this reason alone, I'm personally feeling it would be better off having it all open, and just let every player be considered part of their countries "team" so to speak. Either that or run open in day one, and after everyone mingles that first day let them set up their own teams for the following. National groups preferred but not required. Those who fail to get set up in a team can be randomly assigned at the start of the team play. That will allow for some interesting combos, I'm sure! |
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Bevan |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 14, 2006 - 05:41 PM
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aerofool wrote: I'm personally feeling it would be better off having it all open, and just let every player be considered part of their countries "team" so to speak.
If we had 4 days we could run the events consecutively, but that seems to be impossible now. However, there are two ways to allow everyone to participate in a combined individual and team event.
Option 1.
Put everybody into a team. For example, UK nominates 8 coaches for UK1, then any suprlus go into UK2, UK3 etc. Australia/NZ sends 7 and grabs a spare from the mother country. Canada sends 10 and the 2 extras join France2 and so on.
Limit this to 32 teams or less (256 coaches?).
Play 6 games in 2 days to select a winning country. Swiss pairings for countries and Swiss pairing within each country vs country match. Winning country/team announced at the end of day 2.
For the 3rd day, seed everyone individually according to their record in the team event, then play 3 rounds of Swiss pairings for the individual winner and individual placings 1st to 256th.
Option 2
Individual event over 3 days. Each country nominates 8 to 12 coaches to represent that country. Everyone else is playing for themselves or placed in teams as for Option 1.
Swiss pairings for all 9 rounds (except possibly for places 1 to 4 in round 9). Pairings based on win/loss, but no other match based tiebreaker. All pairings adjusted, if possible, to avoid any coach playing another from the same country and, if possible, playing against a different country in each round.
For the 9th round the top 4 players would be selected, using TD or other scores for tiebreakers if necessary, the rest are paired as usual.
Country team results are calculated for the top 8 (or 6) coaches of the 8 to 12 chosen to represent their country.
Option 1 allows teams to play as a group, wear team uniforms, have cheerleaders nearby etc, but is not quite even for all players. A coach in a weak team will have the team paired against other weak teams, allowing that coach easier games than coaches in good teams. However, the last 3 individual games should sort them out.
Option 2 provides an individual winner as well as country winner in the same competition and is equally fair for everyone, but loses some of the team flavour. Coaches in their national team could still wear uniform, but woul not be playing as a group. |
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Old_Man_Monkey |
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Posted: Nov 14, 2006 - 06:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2003
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TuernRedvenom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2006 - 03:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 28, 2003
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Grotuk wrote: The biggest problem for do it separately is that europeans not in their national team probably are not going to meet any player from the outside of Europe. This makes too less interesting the world cup.
My idea is to make first day open, the 8 best players of each country goes to the Team tourney and the rest plays the individual tournament.
Just an idea.
Yep, and this is the best idea to make lots of people come to play. Because as we've seen at eurobowl, even though the last few years there were efforts and intentions to get a side tourney set up it failed because only people that could play in the team event were interested in coming at all.
If you want the world cup to be big and open to everybody then team selection like the eurobowl's (captains choose, players not chosen will stay at home) will not work.
What I would do:
1st day: Swiss tourney, best 6 (yes, only 6, this leaves more good players in the individual event and makes sure smaller countries can attend) players of every nation get drafted for their national team (players get the right to refuse and chase individual world cup glory). This then breaks the eurobowl rule of 1 race per country, but so be it...
2nd and third day: nations duke it out like in eurobowl but swiss style for nation pairing, random for player pairing. Individual event (hopefully still enough players after taking away national representatives) just goes on swiss style.
At the end 3 prizes: best national team, best player in team competition, best player in individual comp.
Again, I think it's very important that if you want to have a "real" individual tourney you need to give every participant a chance to qualify for the team event or they will stay at home! |
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Indigo |
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Posted: Nov 15, 2006 - 03:16 AM
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Da Warboss
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
Posts: 2168
Location: England
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| I think there is a lot of merit in that - the World Cup should IMO be less about which team is "best" and more about bringing everyone together and playing as many coaches from other countries as possible. |
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NAF #60
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Indigo |
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Posted: Nov 15, 2006 - 03:29 AM
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Da Warboss
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
Posts: 2168
Location: England
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thinking more along those lines, maybe the best idea is to just run one huge individual tournament. The winner gets a prize, but then to decide the best country, the points for the top 8 coaches in each country are added together to get an overall national score. That way everyone is in effect playing for their national team, but overall at the end their best efforts are represented. It also means those countries that can't field a full 8 still have a chance, but need their players to do better overall.
I also think we need to do a proper "Golden Daemon" style painting competition with numerous categories - since we'll see so many cool teams and models it would not be fair to simply give out a single painting prize.
Lots to think about! |
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NAF #60
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TuernRedvenom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2006 - 03:53 AM
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Indigo wrote: I think there is a lot of merit in that - the World Cup should IMO be less about which team is "best" and more about bringing everyone together and playing as many coaches from other countries as possible.
I can see where you're going but I think that base is already covered by the Blood Bowl tourney itself. IMO team events have a certain charm, something special. At the EB and Lowlands Border Brawl (Belgium vs Holland) I see belgian coaches (like Tim/Bendrig) I never see at the individual tourneys but they do come out to play for Belgium.
Personally, I think the team event is essential to differentiate the tourney from the Blood Bowl. And it's also a lot of fun!  |
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juergen |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2006 - 03:55 AM
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Mekboy
Joined: Mar 05, 2004
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it also means that nations with more then 8 players don't have to decide who plays for their team (england, germany will like this)
but you have to take care about scheduling. Players from each nations playing against each other shouldn't be possible because they take important points away - but then you can't avoid that completely.
not easy... |
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Indigo |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2006 - 04:04 AM
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Da Warboss
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
Posts: 2168
Location: England
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I'm sure tournament software can be written to do that, and it makes sense. After all coaches from England will often be able to play other English coaches regularly.
As long as people play this in the correct spirit (for fun, not viewing the tournament as a genuine "best in the world" measure but more as a means to get everyone together) then it will work. |
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NAF #60
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TuernRedvenom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 15, 2006 - 04:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 28, 2003
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Quote: thinking more along those lines, maybe the best idea is to just run one huge individual tournament. The winner gets a prize, but then to decide the best country, the points for the top 8 coaches in each country are added together to get an overall national score. That way everyone is in effect playing for their national team, but overall at the end their best efforts are represented. It also means those countries that can't field a full 8 still have a chance, but need their players to do better overall.
Smaller nations will always be at the bottom of this ranking, even if they have 8 (or even a few more players). Nations with more players have more chance some of them getting lucky and scoring all wins and are less affected if one player has a bad weekend, which inevitably happens (others will just pick up the slack).
What you possibly could do is take the 8 best coaches per nation after day 1, and keep those coaches as the only ones able to score points for their nation instead of taking the best 8 at the end of the tourney. I think that's a bit fairer.
Quote: As long as people play this in the correct spirit (for fun, not viewing the tournament as a genuine "best in the world" measure but more as a means to get everyone together) then it will work.
I think eurobowl shows that competitivity en sportsmanship can go together. I enjoyed every game and everyone was very fair but also very competitive. 
That said, your idea is an option to keep everyone involved and interested, although personally I wouldn't like it (I prefer straight up 8 vs 8 or 6 vs 6). |
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