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MightyQ |
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Post subject: What is the standard time schedule for games ???
 Posted: May 01, 2006 - 06:45 AM
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Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Posts: 40
Status: Offline
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I read on some NAF tournaments that the 4 mintues rule wont be in effect, but the games were only scheduled for 2 hours...
Now 8 4 minute turns is 32 mintues for each opponent, totalling 1 hour 4 mintues each half, final time 2 hours 8 minutes, not counting kickoff set ups, blitzes, perfect defenses, explaining each move and of course in the real life games, a bit of socializing...
I asked a few other people in other countries and they said their naf tournament games are shcedule for 2 hours 30 mintues, which makes more sense...
I recently played in a tournament where time was announced as it was getting closer to the 2 hour mark, 15 mintues, 10 mintues, 5 mintues. One, I think that isnt good as if the 4 mintues turn rules isnt in affect people can stall for the last 5 minutes...
In my game down 1-2 kicking off to my opponent, went to pick up the ball and as he we both heard 5 minutes left, he failed pick up and didnt use reroll because with my turn I couldn't score but get to ball with gfi's... As I did my turn and got 2 of my players to the ball's tackle zone, we heard 5 mintues left AGAIN... This time announcing and rushing affected our game greatly... If time wasnt announced and he failed the pick up and USED the reroll and failed, there could have been a chance for me to tie the game with 3 turns left...
I called the game and gave my opponent the victory due to the time calling issues because I felt it wasnt fair to both of us... |
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Opus |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 01, 2006 - 01:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 14, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 101
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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My personal opinion is that even with the most experienced coaches playing, it is difficult to finish a match in 2 hours. Just considering strategy takes time, nevermind explaining moves, setting up players, etc.
The tournaments I've played in have allotted 2 hours 30 minutes for a match. That *usually* is sufficient - but not always. |
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Primesupreme |
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Posted: May 01, 2006 - 02:04 PM
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Joined: Apr 04, 2006
USA
Posts: 68
Location: USA
Status: Offline
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| I started getting ready for the lone tournament I was in by practicing with 2 minute turns. Because that is what the coordinator of the tournament implied. After a dozen games at two minutes 4 minutes seems like forever. |
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Trojan65 |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 01, 2006 - 05:58 PM
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Joined: Apr 12, 2006
Posts: 14
Status: Offline
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| wow, yeah I've watched a game that was 2hours and change, I've never even remotely took that long. I usually finish a game of bloodbowl in just over an hour.... if you want strategy and what not, u don't need to spend 3 mintues thinking about it, 30s will probably do just fine. I like a shorter clock the 2 minute moves is prolly better IMO |
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MightyQ |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 01, 2006 - 06:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Posts: 40
Status: Offline
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When playing online on OLBBL.com, 3rd edition, games took anywhere from 2-4 hours...
I started playing on Fumbbl.com last year to lear lrb and my games last an hour... One reason online fumbbl games are a bit faster then real life is your dont have to explain to your opponent each move and all the skills involved and you dont have to physically roll dice which takes time...
I have never seen an hour game of real life blood bowl unless one team is totally wiped off the field...
And not all of us are professional blood bowl players... |
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Clan_Skaven |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 01, 2006 - 08:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Posts: 2604
Location: Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Status: Offline
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In my opinion anything loger than 2.5 hours is too long. People taking longer than 4 mins. in a turn are brutal, I hate it, cant stand playing people that take 6+ min. turns every turn....
"Do I block or.... Hmmmm, no I'll.... hmm.... , um wait whats this guys Strength? Ok I'll block, but wait, no 1st um.... , Ok ok I know this 1st....... DING! damn 4 mins. already, that was quick I'm not done yet , I need more time!"
Gimme a break !!!! Plan out your possible moves during your opponents turn, usually you should have a general idea what you want to do at the start of your turn. Honestly I rarely go over the 4 min. mark. I have no prob once in a while, but every turn?
I had a buddy that sometimes used to take sometimes 10-15 min. turns!
If you can not get most of your turns done in under 4 mins. maybe BloodBowl is not your game. (Maybe you should pick up 'tiddley winks' instead!
Rod. |
_________________
"2006 SPIKE Champion!"
"Death-Bowl IV & V, Most Casualties!, Death-Bowl VI Best Team!"
"2008 Dagger Bowl Champion"
Host of the Warpstone Cup, Q'ermitt Bowl & the Hope Bowl
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 01, 2006 - 09:13 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
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Most tournament games are a little quicker than normal ones because you aren't concerned about any of the meta-game stuff (no gate, handicaps, recording SPPs, manipulating who scores your TDs etc)
One problem with tournament games is that you don't want most people waiting too long for other people to finish.
I once had a tourney game finish in 40mins  6 turns of riot helped |
_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 02, 2006 - 05:56 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3953
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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You also have to remember that although you may indicate how long each turn may be (be it 2 or 4 minutes) then you have to consider the possibility that the first roll may result ina turnover!
"Okay, my turn, and will block with the troll on the goblin. AAARGH! Triple Skulls!!!"
IMO 2.5 hours is often too long. Especially for tournaments where people still have a long distance to travel after the tournament is over. Keeping it short and sweet and being considerate of other people's need to get home to their jobs and their families to me is more important than giving the slowpokes a little more time. |
_________________
#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
Last edited by Spazzfist on May 02, 2006 - 06:00 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 02, 2006 - 05:57 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3953
Location: Canada
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Doubleskulls wrote: I once had a tourney game finish in 40mins 6 turns of riot helped
45 minutes was my record, and that was without a riot! |
_________________
#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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juergen |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 02, 2006 - 06:14 AM
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Mekboy
Joined: Mar 05, 2004
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From my tourney expierence as player and organisier I would recommend 2h30min per game and NOT enforce the 4min/turn rule. Why?
- people travel a lot of distance to meet friends, have fun and play BB (in about 90% in that order). puttin them in a hurry just to finish games takes away from their fun. Let them have time for a short half time break (smoke a cigarette, loosen up their feet,....)
- Some turns end in 10sec. Doubleskulls RR doubleskulls. So if you want the 4min average the next turn should be about 8mins - doesn't work. Furthormore if the game is fluid and fast there are always moments where it gets complicated - why penalise them in this situation when the game is fast everywhere else
- People are more relaxed with the extra 30min (option 2h15min)
- it makes your timetable a little more flexible IMO. Although the overall day is longer, if all people are finishing within 2h they don't need the long break and you can cut away time there.
- At Schnitzelbowl we had about 95% of the games finished in time (2h30). With 2h I think only 75% of the games could have been finished - and taking away the fun for the guy that looses because of that
- Don't use the stop watch and say you have 10sek left. If they are in half 2 turn 8 let them have their extra 5min - maybe a little more if the time table allows it (if they agree on their shorter lunch break why not? They have to know how much break they need in between games. Of course don't let your schedule get behind just because of it - but entering the final result and klickin "new round" doesn't take long
So much from my expierence from our first organised BB tourney, Schnitzelbowl I |
_________________
NAF Tournament Organizer, Austria
NAF Membership Coordinator, Austria
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Clan_Skaven |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 02, 2006 - 08:50 AM
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Posts: 2604
Location: Niagara Falls ON, Canada
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Spazzfist wrote: You also have to remember that although you may indicate how long each turn may be (be it 2 or 4 minutes) then you have to consider the possibility that the first roll may result ina turnover!
"Okay, my turn, and will block with the troll on the goblin. AAARGH! Triple Skulls!!!"
IMO 2.5 hours is often too long. Especially for tournaments where people still have a long distance to travel after the tournament is over. Keeping it short and sweet and being considerate of other people's need to get home to their jobs and their families to me is more important than giving the slowpokes a little more time.
I agree 2.5 hours is still to long for tourney play I'm just saying thats the maximum length of time I go. (I still prefer under 2 hours)
Lets not forget the races involved as well. For example you can almost always bet a game between Dwarf vs Chaos Dwarf, will take longer than a game between Skaven vs Wood Elf.
Rod. |
_________________
"2006 SPIKE Champion!"
"Death-Bowl IV & V, Most Casualties!, Death-Bowl VI Best Team!"
"2008 Dagger Bowl Champion"
Host of the Warpstone Cup, Q'ermitt Bowl & the Hope Bowl
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MightyQ |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 02, 2006 - 09:28 AM
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Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Posts: 40
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I was just at a NAF tournament where on the first day games were allowed to go into break time, on the 2nd which was the playoffs, they weren't... When time was called in round one of the playoffs more then 50% of the games were not completed...
Blood Bowl is a turn based game, not everyone is fast... But when you have more then 50% of the games being stopped and not completing, in my opinion they are not true games... There are so many times games are won or lost on turn 8... |
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Clan_Skaven |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 02, 2006 - 10:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Niagara Falls ON, Canada
Posts: 2604
Location: Niagara Falls ON, Canada
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MightyQ wrote: I was just at a NAF tournament where on the first day games were allowed to go into break time, on the 2nd which was the playoffs, they weren't... When time was called in round one of the playoffs more then 50% of the games were not completed...
Blood Bowl is a turn based game, not everyone is fast... But when you have more then 50% of the games being stopped and not completing, in my opinion they are not true games... There are so many times games are won or lost on turn 8...
This is true , but you have to set a time limmit at some point, I had an oppent at a tourney that took forever! the game to my left was on turn 7 of the 1st half , the game to my right was on turn 8 of the first half, our game was on turn 2 (just started turn 2) he was planning every possible place each payer could go (he'd put dice out on multiple spots to show all the various locations/posibilities before he could decide where he would go. That was just for one modle (multply that by 11)
some people in my opinion are not suited to play in tournies (tourney play & league play are two different mindsets) just like speed chess vs regular chess!
In a tourney if my game is stopped way before the final turn due to time! Well sure I'll be pissed espeacially if I get a loss (cause I know the long game is never me, I'm not a "Umm,.... hmmm,......maybe this, or ,.....hmmmm..... ect ect ect, type of player" If you are I'd say start practicing with the 4 min timer before you attend tournies! Remember people are often travling by car as long as 10+hour drives, so to hold up the entire tourney cause one guy doesn't know wheather to Block with number 7 first or pick up the ball with number 12 first is ridiculous!
I'm not trying to drive people away from tourney's, but if you can't play fast & are going to get upset cause your games end up getting stopped b4 they are done. And you think it would be more fair to let you finnish your full game at a cost of the entire tourney being held up just for you? Then I ask if thats what you think, that you stay home.
I'm not directing at at any individuals, I'm just saying in general.
Rod. |
_________________
"2006 SPIKE Champion!"
"Death-Bowl IV & V, Most Casualties!, Death-Bowl VI Best Team!"
"2008 Dagger Bowl Champion"
Host of the Warpstone Cup, Q'ermitt Bowl & the Hope Bowl
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KarlLagerbottom |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 02, 2006 - 11:35 AM
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Joined: May 25, 2004
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The tourney that MightyQ is talking about is this past weekend's New World Cup. The games on Day 2 were started early and were done on a strict 2-hour time limit to facilitate the tourney ending early enough to get the Canadians on the road so they could get home at a somewhat decent time.
That said...I sincerely beleive that the outcome of the tourney was effected by the sheer amount of games that were ended early. The DC Team is very good and they have a very competitive local league, but the Champs were decided by a tie-breaker when final round games still had turns to play.
I also would not want to turn people away from travelling to tournies, but there are two sides to the coin. If people don't want to travel to play 5 complete games in a reasonable amount of time...then maybe they should stay home.
The point of the tourney is not really to determine a winner...it's to create a more meaningful reason to play the game. PLAYING the game being paramount...lets just play at a pace where there can be a balance between keeping a schedule and enjoying the games.
My two cents... |
_________________
Karl Lagerbottom - Dwarf Blocker of Renown
NAF Member #5236
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Hoshi_Komi |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 02, 2006 - 12:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 23, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 550
Location: United States of America
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KarlLagerbottom wrote: The DC Team is very good and they have a very competitive local league, but the Champs were decided by a tie-breaker when final round games still had turns to play.
I think the championship games shoulda been allowed to play into the breaks, just like the previous day.
but the DC team finished all their games but two (both by the canadian) and it looked like he shoulda won one if allowed to goto full time and the other one looked like a solid tie. |
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