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Mestari |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Nov 17, 2003 - 05:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 407
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I remember this being the first issue I raised when I joined the mailing list sometimes in -98 or so... 
Nevertheless, I would suspect that both the pro and con sides of this issue are pretty much in the minority, while the majority of players do not have a solid opinion on the issue.
The only argument that I readily admit has some solid ground under it is the one about TTM, but otherwise I fail to see the "game mechanic"-point on this issue. |
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Teemu Tokola aka Mestari
Member #52
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bigallium |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 15, 2004 - 05:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 11, 2004
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same as Zombie and Martin.
Only tackle zones modify fumble, range/weather modify accuacy.
to avoid "cheesy punting plays" in general, not just with the adapted passing modifiers, we always played that you had to have a target player (even with hail mary) if you want to pass.
This was one of the big problems with the kicking rules in the last edidtion.
Once a play had broken down, the game turned into kick tennis, with your team split into two groups, one upfield trying to catch it and one back field, trying to field to opposition kick and boot it up field again.
I'm sure in 2nd edidtion (polystyrene pitch) you had to have a target player. Tho I could be wrong.
The changing of this to 'any square' I never did like.
so there..
right. |
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Squig87 |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 19, 2004 - 05:04 PM
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Joined: May 15, 2004
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The thing that worrys me about this is that I honestly can't see where in the LRB it says that "fumbled throws are modified by the range of the pass..." And I've been trying to convince my league of this, yet without the solid proof I cant change this.
We've always played only 1s for fumble. I just hope that nobody latches onto the diving catch cheese tactic. A misthrown longbomb rolls a 2 but the diving catch player catches on 3's with re roll. Its like hail mary on every player... good thing only I have thought of this, and have no intention of playing it.
Could anyone "quote me happy", I really wanna prove 'em wrong.
Cheers
Squig |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 19, 2004 - 07:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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| Diving catch is worthless even with this house rule. The chance an accurate pass falling in range is less than 50%, and you get no reroll on this. Not something i'd put my hopes in, especially with something so crucial and game deciding as a long pass. It's better to try and be accurate! |
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They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 20, 2004 - 02:50 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
Status: Offline
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| LRB pp22 "if the D6 roll for a pass is 1 or less before or after modification, then the thrower has fumbled and dropped the ball." |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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BenArd |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 20, 2004 - 08:06 AM
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Joined: Apr 28, 2003
Posts: 42
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IMO both the range and the tackle zones would affect the pass.
Anyone who has ever tried anything sporting will know that the difficulty in performing an accurate throw/kick is directly proportional to the distance that you are trying to move the ball. A quick pass consists of just tossing the ball a short distance which is not too difficult and will not carry too high a risk of fumbling. However, throwing the football half the length of the field is much harder as you have to put much more effort into generating ball speed to cover the distance. Therefore you have less control over the pass and because of the higher effort you have more chance of dropping the ball.
Also, try the following exercise. Go out and try jogging a few steps, setting yourself and throwing a ball to a friend 50yrds away. Only the distance would cause any problem. Now try doing the same with another friend chasing you a couple of steps behind. You have much less time to set yourself (if you even get the chance) and more than likely would have to throw on the run. Obviously this adds a much higher chance of fumbling the ball as you have to concentrate on trying to throw the football a long distance, avoiding the attentions of your pursuer and trying to be accurate with the throw.
Therefore, the difficulty in throwing a pass and the possibility of fumbling is directly proportional to the distance of the throw and the time you have/pressure you are under.
What I’m trying to say is that, IMO, the LRB rules adequately cover this element of the game. I also think that by reducing the chances of fumbling you unfairly weight the game in favour of agile teams. Yes stronger teams also have less chance of fumbling the ball but they still have just as bad a chance of throwing inaccurate passes whilst agile teams now have a slightly bigger advantage because they will drop the ball less often and even if they don’t throw accurately the ball will still be up around the receiver.
Having said all this I don’t think that throwing a long bomb would result in a fumble 50% of the time and think that maybe a –1 modifier on long pass and long bomb throws would be more realistic. Just to give that added risk to throwing the ball distances. Also there needs to be some allowance for higher agility players to throw long bombs inaccurately as currently it stands at an AG5 player can either throw a long bomb accurately or fumble. Of course, this is just my humble opinion and what suits our league may not suit another. |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 20, 2004 - 08:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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| In our house rule, range does affect your chance of being accurate, it just doesn't affect your chance of fumbling. When you think about it, that makes sense. Fumbling occurs when people are grabing at you, not when you're all alone and safe trying to throw far! |
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They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
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BenArd |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 20, 2004 - 08:36 AM
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Joined: Apr 28, 2003
Posts: 42
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| I can see you point. I just think that sometimes when your trying to chuck it a long way you get caught up trying to hard to get the distance and don't concentrate too much on the technique and that's when bad things happen. But like I said, it's just my opinion and it would make a pretty boring forum if everyone agreed on everything. |
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Ruislip Manor Bloodbowl Confederation
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Post subject:
Posted: May 20, 2004 - 09:10 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
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| Well, show me an instance where a professional quarterback ever fumbled a long throw with no pressure whatsoever and i'll be impressed. If this happens more than once every million throws, i'd be surprised. Fumbling with pressure, now that's common. |
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They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
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Xtreme |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 20, 2004 - 09:15 AM
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Da Boss
Joined: Mar 12, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1096
Location: United States of America
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Definatly doesn't happen 50% of the time.
I agree with Zombie. |
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slup |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 20, 2004 - 11:01 AM
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Big Mek
Joined: May 06, 2004
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Posts: 455
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Status: Offline
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Squig87 wrote: The thing that worrys me about this is that I honestly can't see where in the LRB it says that "fumbled throws are modified by the range of the pass..." And I've been trying to convince my league of this, yet without the solid proof I cant change this.
We've always played only 1s for fumble. I just hope that nobody latches onto the diving catch cheese tactic. A misthrown longbomb rolls a 2 but the diving catch player catches on 3's with re roll. Its like hail mary on every player... good thing only I have thought of this, and have no intention of playing it.
Could anyone "quote me happy", I really wanna prove 'em wrong.
Cheers
Squig
Quote: Fumbles
Sometimes a player attempting to throw the ball will drop it in their own square. This is more likely if the player has any opposing players breathing down his neck! To represent this, if the D6 roll for a pass is 1 or less before or after modification, then the thrower has fumbled and dropped the ball. The ball will bounce once from the thrower’s square, and the moving team will suffer a turnover and their team turn ends immediately.
LRB page 22
Modification means all modifiers: very sunny, foul app, TZ, accurate and range modifiers. |
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slup |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 20, 2004 - 11:22 AM
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Big Mek
Joined: May 06, 2004
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Posts: 455
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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Zombie wrote: Well, show me an instance where a professional quarterback ever fumbled a long throw with no pressure whatsoever and i'll be impressed. If this happens more than once every million throws, i'd be surprised. Fumbling with pressure, now that's common.
A professionel Blood Bowl thrower (accurate and strong arm) also only fumbles at any range on a pure 1 (with no other modifiers than range).
There you have your quarterback.
Now give the ball to one of those 325 lbs steorid-pumped players in the middle and make him do the same thing.
You will most certainly see a fumble at roughly 50% of his passes. |
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Squig87 |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 20, 2004 - 12:43 PM
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Joined: May 15, 2004
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Thanks for the quote sup. Although this is quite a major aspect of the passing game it never came up in Nottingham in any games, with 6 people. 36 games and no fumbled passes, man nuffle looked down on use that day...
Then again, my necros only attempted hand offs...
Thanks
Squig |
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slup |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 20, 2004 - 01:16 PM
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Big Mek
Joined: May 06, 2004
Undisclosed
Posts: 455
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Status: Offline
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Squig87 wrote: Thanks for the quote sup. Although this is quite a major aspect of the passing game it never came up in Nottingham in any games, with 6 people. 36 games and no fumbled passes, man nuffle looked down on use that day...
Then again, my necros only attempted hand offs...
Thanks
Squig
In games with teams at low level and without the need to earn SPP you generally don't pass a lot if at all.
It is too risky.
As you said, handoffs goes a long way  |
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 20, 2004 - 03:06 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
Status: Offline
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Although the range doesn't effect fumbles is a more realistic rule it is, in my opinion and our leagues an unbalancing one.
1) Specialist throwers ought to be better than "naturally" talented players (e.g. a human with accurate & strong arm ought to have a lower chance of fumbling than an AG5 player).
2) Punting the ball up the field is annoying as hell and gives too good a reward (at the end of a half) for the associated risk. |
_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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