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Mordredd |
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Post subject: new Bretonnian team rules
 Posted: Apr 02, 2003 - 12:43 PM
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Joined: Mar 03, 2003
England
Posts: 728
Location: England
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I have been play testing a new Bretonnian team in my league and would appreciate some additional feedback. This may be a little long, but please read it and give me your opinions.
First an explanation of how I arrived at this particular team format.
I have seen many teams around, but never one that I liked. They had, to my mind, no consistency with the background or logic concerning which players were selected and which were rejected. Every class of knight was represented in one team, or another, but my biggest problem with the team can be summed up with one phrase.
Bloody peasants!
No self respecting knight is going to allow the honour of Bretonnia to be upheld by some stinking peasant. The only reason they appear on the Bretonnian battle field is that the traditional enemies are all horde armies (Skaven, Orc, and Undead). There are not enough knights so the peasants are used to hold ground until the knights have taken the enemy apart one unit at a time. There are, however, easily enough knights to form a 16 man blood bowl team.
That leaves types of knights and skills.
Most popular seems to be Questing knights with stand firm. Of all the knights I feel the Questing knights would not stay in one place long enough to join a BB team. They are, after all, off questing for the Grail. And stand firm is the trait of a race that stubbornly holds their ground, like Dwarves, not a race of knights renowned for their devastating charges.
So, that leaves Grail knights, old pro???s and inspirational leaders. Knights of the Realm, skilled blitzer types, and Knight Errant, the wannabe knights of Bretonnia.
Finally I present the new team as it currently stands.
0-1 Grail Knight 130k 6 4 3 9 block leader pro GEN ST
0-6 Knight of the Realm 90k 6 3 3 9 block GEN ST
0-12 Knight Errant 70k 7 3 3 8 none GEN
Reroll 50k
No team wizard. Where is the honour of winning because some maiden off the pitch lightning bolted that Orc blitzer in the back?
No fouling. A knight would not stain his honour by cheating in any way.
The team has been modified during the season, and now seems quite balanced. They have won all 4 games, but they were toned down and made more expensive after the 2nd. In addition their third game was made easier by the other teams previous thrashing at the hands of a truly vicious undead team 2 games earlier (3 niggles, 2 dead). Their 4th game was a horribly close (2-1) rematch with the Chaos Dwarf team they played first game. |
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tommyboy |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 02, 2003 - 12:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 24, 2003
Posts: 46
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What about squire's????
Furthermore, I believe JJ doesn't consider Blood Bowl to be "in the Warhammer World" or something like that. So the peasants aren't to much of a strecth.
Although I am all for a subdivision of the human race; just like elves, skavens (clan bowl) and dwarves (Worlds Edge League).
I even came up with rules for a Human League- but have yet to playtest any of it.
Keep playtesting. 4-0 is good, maybe too good? |
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"Now you listen to me. Your fault, my fault, nobody's fault. If something happens to that boy, I'm gonna blow your head off. No matter who else gets shot, no matter who gets killed-
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-The Duke, "Big Jake"
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Valen |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 02, 2003 - 03:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 28, 2003
England
Posts: 315
Location: England
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Mordredd,
I like them, but the squires Tommyboy mentioned should be in there I feel.
Tommyboy,
I would be interested too see your human league rules! |
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I'm coming at you with razor blades and lemon juice... I'm talkin' pain, boy. Searing, mind-numbing pain!!!
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 03, 2003 - 05:13 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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Grail Knight needs to lose Block.
If you want to make a Grail Knight go with doubles skills that make him seem a great warrior ... let him fill in skills like Pro and Block with skill rolls.
I'd go with Dauntless, Stand Firm, Leader
After testing 77 new rosters in the MBBL2 for 2 years, I and my league have come to the conclusion that no player with ST 4+ should ever start with the Block skill.
Galak |
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tommyboy |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 03, 2003 - 06:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 24, 2003
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Valen-S-
The Human League rules are on this board (in this section).
The thread is titled: THE HUMAN LEAGUE (not the 80's band) |
_________________
"Now you listen to me. Your fault, my fault, nobody's fault. If something happens to that boy, I'm gonna blow your head off. No matter who else gets shot, no matter who gets killed-
I'M GONNA BLOW YOUR HEAD OFF"
-The Duke, "Big Jake"
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Valen |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 04, 2003 - 02:18 AM
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Joined: Mar 28, 2003
England
Posts: 315
Location: England
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| Found it, very ggod! |
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I'm coming at you with razor blades and lemon juice... I'm talkin' pain, boy. Searing, mind-numbing pain!!!
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Mordredd |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 04, 2003 - 04:21 AM
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Joined: Mar 03, 2003
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tommyboy
I did not forget about squires, I just failed to explain why I omitted them. Basically it is because they are commoners, and also because a squire is quite literally a knights attendant. I believe in BB they would be called assistant coaches.
I think JJ considers BB to be in the Warhammer world, but not. Kind of like a very close parallel dimension where they have an insane sport with massive corporate sponsorship and cabalvision in all the local pubs instead of massive pitched battles. They are different, but the geography/races/cultures are the same.
You are right, 4-0 is a bit good. However it is not overly surprising considering I was undefeated in our last 2 seasons.
Galak
I had been wondering if the Grail Knight was too powerful, although the CD's bull centaur has been very good at neutralising him. I feel he must retain block as I cannot explain why a Knight of the Realm would forget how to block after successfully questing for the Grail. He should also be stronger than the other knights due to the power of the Lady of the Lake. Perhaps giving him 'horns' instead of ST4? How about preventing him from using team rerolls like a big guy? Too busy praying at the Grail Shrine to practice with the team. Maybe he shouldn't lend and/or receive assists because honour dictates he fight every player one on one?
I still reject stand firm as an un-Bretonnian skill. |
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Redfang |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 04, 2003 - 04:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2003
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the fact that the Grail Knight knows how to block well would also be reflected by his higher Str, which gives him more dice to roll!
R |
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Valen |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 04, 2003 - 06:53 AM
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I agree that he should keep Block, but I also agree that ST4 + Block is too much, I like the idea of not being able too use team re-rolls!
P.S. I am seeing quite alot of you today Redfang! Have you give up on the Nuffle argument? |
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I'm coming at you with razor blades and lemon juice... I'm talkin' pain, boy. Searing, mind-numbing pain!!!
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 04, 2003 - 08:25 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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Valen-S wrote: I agree that he should keep Block, but I also agree that ST4 + Block is too much, I like the idea of not being able too use team re-rolls!
P.S. I am seeing quite alot of you today Redfang! Have you give up on the Nuffle argument?
Valen, all I can offer you more is the Brettonian team that my league uses we use and you can go from there for other ideas. Our Grail Knight (White Knight) is ST 5 and does lose Block. The ST 5 shows how far he's come with his battle skills (ie he cannot lift the same as a Ogre, but he could take one on in hand to hand combat due to his battle savy).
http://www.blood-bowl.net/GWTeams/Brettonian.html
(Double Blitz is similar to Frenzy ... only useable on blitzes, the 2nd block is option, and you don't have to follow-up).
Galak |
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Valen |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 04, 2003 - 08:43 AM
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Joined: Mar 28, 2003
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I like it, the Greater Glory neagative trait is great!
But as was said before, as you have made him a Big Guy he can't use team re-rolls! |
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I'm coming at you with razor blades and lemon juice... I'm talkin' pain, boy. Searing, mind-numbing pain!!!
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KarlLindemann |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 04, 2003 - 03:40 PM
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Joined: Feb 19, 2003
Peotone, Illinois
Posts: 54
Location: Peotone, Illinois
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i think that the rules in the compendium(i think the compendium anyway) are fine, I see no problem with them so far in my league i was 3-2 before we had to stop the league.
I say nuts to no peasants i enjoy having cheap guys to throw around aimlessly around the pitch to get in the way. |
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Mordredd |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 04, 2003 - 04:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 03, 2003
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Location: England
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KarlLindemann wrote: i enjoy having cheap guys to throw around aimlessly around the pitch to get in the way.
Buy a Goblin team then  |
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KarlLindemann |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 05, 2003 - 09:59 AM
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Joined: Feb 19, 2003
Peotone, Illinois
Posts: 54
Location: Peotone, Illinois
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Good idea! that'd be fun, but I like how i painted my Brettonians  |
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dlb1969 |
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Post subject: Re: new Bretonnian team rules
Posted: Apr 10, 2003 - 10:26 PM
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Joined: Feb 18, 2003
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Posts: 28
Location: Peotone
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Well, I don't like it either. Block and ST4 shouldn't be mixed as Galak has stated. I made this error with our leagues Breattonian team also and it was a disaster. We changed after just one season. If you want to show his great skill he can do it with other skills or traits. We have a questing knight in our team, but you reasoning for not including them makes sense so I might just re-think my team. I know you said you didn't like the idea of having peasants and I agree and I know you said you though squires should not be allowed on the field either. I think your reasoning for that makes sense too. If not either of those, then what about men-at-arms. I believe the brettonians do use regular soldiers don't they. I think of the brettonians as a hard hitting, quick strike type team. What about this:
0-12 Men-at-Arms 50k none GN
0-2 Errant Knights 70k 6 3 3 8 pass, nerves of steel, honorable GN, PS
0-4 Realm Knights 100k 7 3 3 8 block, nerves of steel, honorable GN, ST
0-2 Grail Knights 130k 6 4 3 9 mighty blow, dauntless, nerves of steel, honorable GN, ST
RR=50k, no wizard, apoth=yes
Players with honorable can't foul.
I don't like the Greater Glory trait that is used on Galak's leagues, no offense Galak.
Having leader and pro on the same guy is a little over doing it in my opinion. I don't think any player should start with leader at all myself. That gives the team a cheap way to get a re-roll. Pro is okay for a knight, but I think dauntless and mighty blow feels better for a quick hard hitting player. I added nerves of steel becuase I think knights are pretty much fearless for the most part.
Let me know what you think of my version of the team. I'm thinking of actually changing my current league set up to this. I don't see they Brets having a true catcher type player so I didn't add one. |
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