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SBG |
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Post subject: Dauntless and Horns precision
 Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 12:59 AM
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Joined: Feb 15, 2003
Canada
Posts: 771
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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OK guys, I know it has been answered before, and as a matter of fact, we found an explanation on the forum.
Still, a player in my league brought what I thought was a fair argument, and I decided as commish to look at it further through.
Just bear in mind we are all French speaking and although my English skills are not bad at all, this might explain this question.
From what I understand, Gutter Runner with Horns and Dauntless, when blitzing a ST3 player, gets a 2-dice block if he rolls a 2+ on Dauntless, because of horns. Now, the rulebook says, for Dauntless:
Quote: The strength of both players is calculated before any defensive or
offensive assists are added but after all other modifiers.
Since it says a bit above that sentence that:
Quote: The skill only works when the player attempts to block an opponent who is stronger than himself.
aren't they the same strength now? At least, this is what this player argued.
His logic is that when you are about to block as part of your blitz action, the GR is in fact of lower ST, but when you apply the modifier (s), in this case, he is no longer and shouldn't roll for Dauntless.
We still played it that the GR got a 2-dice block, but I'd like to get a bulletproof answer to that. Excuse my redondance.
Fred |
_________________
Winner of Soup Bowls I, II, III (Chaos Dwarves); IV, V (Dwarves); XIII (Orcs); XIV (Dark Elves) & XVII (Chaos).
Forget the Yankees, forget the Habs: THAT'S a Dynasty!!!
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject: RE: Dauntless and Horns precision
Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 04:55 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
Status: Offline
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This was a change in LRB5 so the mistake is understandable. He was right.
Horns is used first - bring the GR to S3, so Dauntless isn't used. So its a 1 dice block. |
_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Cramy |
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Post subject: RE: Dauntless and Horns precision
Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 10:24 AM
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Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Canada
Posts: 403
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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| Yes, Ian is right. This was changed from LRB4 to LRB5, on purpose. Can't remember why though, but I believe that there was a specific reason for this change. |
_________________
The Ottawa Gatineau Blood Bowl League, fine purveyors of Blood Bowl tournaments since 2007. Home to the Deathbowl, CCKO and Daggerbowl.
Cramy
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smeborg |
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Post subject: RE: Dauntless and Horns precision
Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 01:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 223
Status: Offline
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One of the reason for the change was because daft things could be done by a player with Dauntless + Horns, making it an overpowered combination.
For example, a Gutter Runner (ST2) with Dauntless, Horns (a popular, nay, proverbial combination in 3rd Ed) could Blitz a Treeman (ST6) and knock him over with relative ease . Changing the order from Dauntless/Horns to Horns/Dauntless meant that the GR, if unassisted, could not get better than a 1 die block.
There were actually 2 changes between 3rd and 5th Eds.:
- Dice roll changed from 2D6 to 1D6.
- Horns added to player's ST before Dauntless operates (instead of after).
I like the "new" Dauntless as it seems more balanced. It changes with the Dauntless player's ST. For example, Star Player Prince Moron (ST4, Dauntless) is relatively good at knocking over ST5 players. A Gutter Runner with Dauntless (or even Dauntless, Horns) is not as good.
The 3rd Edition Dauntless was less related to a player's ST. You rolled 2D6 and added it to your ST. This was always likely to give a high number.
Hope this helps. |
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smeborg |
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Post subject: RE: Dauntless and Horns precision
Posted: Mar 26, 2009 - 01:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 223
Status: Offline
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One of the reason for the change was because daft things could be done by a player with Dauntless + Horns, making it an overpowered combination.
For example, a Gutter Runner (ST2) with Dauntless, Horns (a popular, nay, proverbial combination in 3rd Ed) could Blitz a Treeman (ST6) and knock him over with relative ease . Changing the order from Dauntless/Horns to Horns/Dauntless meant that the GR, if unassisted, could not get better than a 1 die block.
There were actually 2 changes between 3rd and 5th Eds.:
- Dice roll changed from 2D6 to 1D6.
- Horns added to player's ST before Dauntless operates (instead of after).
I like the "new" Dauntless as it seems more balanced. It changes with the Dauntless player's ST. For example, Star Player Prince Moron (ST4, Dauntless) is relatively good at knocking over ST5 players. A Gutter Runner with Dauntless (or even Dauntless, Horns) is not as good.
The 3rd Edition Dauntless was less related to a player's ST. You rolled 2D6 and added it to your ST. This was always likely to give a high number.
Hope this helps. |
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject: RE: Dauntless and Horns precision
Posted: Mar 27, 2009 - 04:06 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
Status: Offline
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The change was for a couple of reasons. The old dauntless was very good skill - and the lower strength you were the better it was. Really Dauntless is meant to be skill to enable linemen to take on big guys. In LRB4 & earlier it was a skill to convert S2 catchers into blitzers. Also we were getting rid of traits so there was a need to tone it down a little too.
So the old 2D6 to beat strength became a D6 + Strength to beat opponent strength. So higher base strength made it more effective - and it was less effective with S2 players.
Making horns apply before dauntless was just common sense fix to a broken combo. Dauntless/Horns gutter runners were much much better than one turners IMO. Get anywhere, hit anything. |
_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Cramy |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Dauntless and Horns precision
Posted: Mar 27, 2009 - 10:10 AM
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Joined: Nov 17, 2006
Canada
Posts: 403
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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Doubleskulls wrote: Making horns apply before dauntless was just common sense fix to a broken combo. Dauntless/Horns gutter runners were much much better than one turners IMO. Get anywhere, hit anything.
That really was a killer combo. Happy that this got fixed, even if I'm a Skaven coach and used this combo as soon as the skills rolls allowed for it. Agreed that this was a much better GR than a one turner. |
_________________
The Ottawa Gatineau Blood Bowl League, fine purveyors of Blood Bowl tournaments since 2007. Home to the Deathbowl, CCKO and Daggerbowl.
Cramy
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