NAF Logo
leftstar Mar 29, 2024 - 07:32 AM
capleft
spacer
NAF World Headquarters
home forum rankings tourneys nyleague faq
Pass action..pick up Nobbla... rightstar
capright

Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Printable version Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Author Message
DaveOffline
Post subject: NAF World Cup Painting Competition - discussion  PostPosted: Feb 02, 2011 - 02:11 PM
da Veiz-Prez


Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 895
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
On the Painting.

We're a little daunted by the task of both running the tournament smoothly and also running a painting competition. We invite everyone to explain his take on how the painting could be organized without being a major harrasment to the general ongoings of the tournament

Things that we've played with:
1) A comittee consisting of 'recognized painters' and organization nominates an x amount of teams
2) Team Captains may put forth one team for the painting prize when the painter of the team is a team member
3) No painting as the logistical implications may well be massive
4) ...

_________________
First ever poster on the NAF site, Former Prez' proverbial pain in the bum and NTO-Netherlands
 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
Reply with quote Back to top
ElyoukeyOffline
Post subject: RE: NAF World Cup Painting Competition - discussion  PostPosted: Feb 03, 2011 - 01:52 AM



Joined: Nov 28, 2006
Undisclosed
Posts: 72
Location: Undisclosed
Status: Offline
actually not everybody is full english fluent (and especially me) so maybe first a bit of nomenclature. The term "team" may be ambiguous (?) designing the 6 coachs team or the 16 painted miniatures.
"2) Team Captains may put forth one team for the painting prize when the painter of the team is a team member "
i am not able to be the member of the team i painted ... ^_^


as far as i see for me the easier would be a 'golden demon' like:
3 categories
-big guy
-roster
-individual (human sized)

for each category any coach can submit 1 entry. So anybody can bring his friends miniatures and present them if they whish.
you have to get a place to display the entries (i guess a Detolf would do the trick, maybe two if there are a lot of participants, but i don't think they will be so much, datas from the previous WC would help to get the good proportion)

Then i would go for the first proposition: a committee, independant from the main organisators (the aim is to leave the organisators handle the tournament)
do select the winners for each category. If there are enough entries, may be a top 3 for each.
If possible a guest star may participate to the deliberation (Jervis Johnson or MikeMcVey would be welcome i think)

But i don't know if there would be enough participation, so only 1 category may be enough.

I think that if you don't want it to overlap the tournament you have to delegate the main part to the recognized painters (2-3 painters should be enough i think).
People should be able to enter the contest from friday night to saturday morning so they can subscribe in between the first rounds. The comitte could deliberate on saturday so the prize can be given on sunday.
This would make a 'standard' painting contest. entries would not be played by the coaches.


But if you want to have the best played roster, you may consider the doubleskull way, i have never seen it in use, but it sounds pretty good:
      Quote:

For teams and mini's people are playing with then you need something else. One thing I've done in the past is to have painting scored by every opponent. Then you work out the difference between the score given and the average that player gives, and that is the painting score for the round. So for example Adam scores Carl, Dave and Ed 5,6,7. Carl gets -1, Dave 0, and Ed +1. Bob scores them 10,10,10 and the all get zero. I use the same technique for sportsmanship (BTW thanks to Bevan and Babs for introducing me to it).

The team with the highest differential generally is very good. Sometimes I'll just use this to determine the winner, in other instances use it to qualify for expert review. So for example the top 10 teams might make the short list, then the judges pick the 1,2 & 3.

people giving the painting score on friday and saturday, this would let the saturday night and sunday morning for a committee to judge the top 10 with miniatures in their hands.
to do this you have to prepare a specific 'painting score' cell in the reportsheet.





my 2 cents


oh and please please please do not consider the point 3) "No painting as the logistical implications may well be massive ", if you are really in the lack of time, i can contact the Teamtoulouse, i am pretty sure they could find 2-3 painters to organise it for you.
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
DaveOffline
Post subject: RE: NAF World Cup Painting Competition - discussion  PostPosted: Feb 03, 2011 - 09:38 AM
da Veiz-Prez


Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 895
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
good input, any others?

_________________
First ever poster on the NAF site, Former Prez' proverbial pain in the bum and NTO-Netherlands
 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
Reply with quote Back to top
Darkson
Post subject: RE: NAF World Cup Painting Competition - discussion  PostPosted: Feb 03, 2011 - 10:52 AM



Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2696
Location: Undisclosed
As a non-painter, I'm happy with 3.

But...

I think #1 is the way to go, but I'd also suggest that you ask everyone at registration (either in person or on the entry form) whether they'd like to be considered for Best Painted. For example, looking at any team I paint is a waste of time, and that time (even if it's only 15-20 seconds)could be spent elsewhere. If, say, 50% of people decide they're not entering Best Painted, then that's 200 less teams to look at.

I'd also limit it to teams (and single figs if you go that direction) that the player painted themselves.

_________________
_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Reply with quote Back to top
JaMOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 03, 2011 - 03:18 PM



Joined: Nov 01, 2004

Posts: 16

Status: Offline
1. the painter should play with his team (i.e. the team you use should be painted by yourself).
2. 1 entry per the 6 members of the "country-team". Downside: probably every team wants to have a shot. So you are still looking at 100 teams (more or less).
3. I'm not too sure about individual models. After all, it's a team-event and there are BB-teams... it may look good on paper, but that's a HELL of a lot of models then. I'd say stick to teams.
4. Maybe, to make things a bit more exciting, get them on a base. There's still time till November, that shouldnt be hard. Someone not willing to try that should probably not enter this painting competition.
Downside: Like the GD, we'll get the "best-base" syndrome.

I'll ponder a bit more I guess. It would be nice to have some kind of painting prize.


Is there an easy way to check if EVERYONE would like to enter this ? Or are we looking at 20-30 teams ?
Because 20 teams are doable, 60 is a headache...
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
HachablancaOffline
Post subject: RE: NAF World Cup Painting Competition - discussion  PostPosted: Feb 03, 2011 - 03:25 PM



Joined: Apr 02, 2007
Spain
Posts: 27
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Hello,

I'll tell you my personal opinion:

Players "painters"are usually known in their country of origin. Of the participants who represent the country could elect a candidate as "best national artist. "

So you would have the names of the participating artists before the tournament. They could publish their work so that others saw them and their team mates to take their teams painted.

You could appoint a judge for the country to vote and organize the tournament paint under your supervision to take away not so long.

Thanks for having us
If you need help, tell me

Hachablanca / Nacho SM
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
CookieOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 03, 2011 - 08:46 PM



Joined: Mar 30, 2006
England
Posts: 14
Location: England
Status: Offline
I think everybody judging everyone else is going to be a little bit too subjective to weed out the best painted teams. I can't see an easy way that a clear winner (or set of winners) will necessarily emerge from that given hundreds of coaches each with their own tastes.

A committee (rather than just decent painters, but representative of all abilities) evaluating and voting on submissions seems more sensible and manageable. It could be done over an evening or set of breaks.

The painters are then judged by their player peers, and for the sake of objectivity I'd suggest no entries from the judges.

The tricky bit is keeping the number of submissions manageable, I'd be in favor of the painter being present to submit their entry. Presenting others work is always a bit iffy, you might be able to present a Golden Daemon winning entry but it doesn't mean the painter likes or plays the game.

From my tournament experience, you get maybe 3-4 decent teams in contention for best painted awards out of an average of 30 players. Scaling that to the tournament size maybe restricting to just one entry per player team (or per category per player team) is realistic both in terms of entry numbers and able painters?

That way, the coaches themselves do the first round of elimination for you.
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
ElyoukeyOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 04, 2011 - 01:15 AM



Joined: Nov 28, 2006
Undisclosed
Posts: 72
Location: Undisclosed
Status: Offline
      JaM wrote:
1. the painter should play with his team (i.e. the team you use should be painted by yourself).

i really think this is the first question to clearly answer. If the organizer want
a best played team
or
a parallel bloodbowl painting contest

once this answered it is possible to go to the organisation step and find the best way to handle the time issue.
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
DoubleskullsOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 04, 2011 - 05:21 AM
Ex-Rulz Committee


Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
Status: Offline
My preference would normally be to insist that the painter is present, they just don't have to be using the minis. So you can submit a team you've lent to someone else to play or even painted for them.

_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Reply with quote Back to top
JaMOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 04, 2011 - 08:27 AM



Joined: Nov 01, 2004

Posts: 16

Status: Offline
The painter should indeed actually BE there.
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
DoubleskullsOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 04, 2011 - 08:58 PM
Ex-Rulz Committee


Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
Status: Offline
Agreed, but your wording said they had to be using the team themselves, and mine doesn't. Its a subtle point, but can be important.

_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Reply with quote Back to top
CookieOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 05, 2011 - 09:54 AM



Joined: Mar 30, 2006
England
Posts: 14
Location: England
Status: Offline
It would probably be easier for the judges if they weren't using the team.

I believe thats how the last world cup worked
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
ElyoukeyOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 07, 2011 - 10:18 AM



Joined: Nov 28, 2006
Undisclosed
Posts: 72
Location: Undisclosed
Status: Offline
      JaM wrote:
The painter should indeed actually BE there.

Concerning the presence of the painter, the problem is you cannot be sure at 100% that the one painting the miniature is the one showing them to you. It may be painted by someone else and the presenting guy trying to get the prize.
I know this is not this kind of mentality we have here, but it i think it must be considered.

Any improvement/information/choice from the organizing team during the weekend ?
 
 View user's profile Send private message  
Reply with quote Back to top
Marco_GianniOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 07, 2011 - 12:06 PM



Joined: Mar 11, 2006

Posts: 41

Status: Offline
Maybe being confident some time to time could be the good attitude ?

However I can attest that I'm the painter of all the minis played by Elyoukey Very Happy

_________________
Rugbowl official website
 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Reply with quote Back to top
AnthonyTBBFOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 15, 2011 - 07:15 PM



Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Toronto, ON
Posts: 1313
Location: Toronto, ON
Status: Offline
I think it would be cool if the painting competition was a big deal. It would be really cool if countries could enter minis from people not attending, since getting to the WC just for painting might not be doable by the majority of painters. I would propose that each country can submit entries on behalf of people not attending who are "painting for their country" and that it be judged by a panel of recognized pros.

I think this would add another dimension to the WC that would truly round out the BB hobby in general.

_________________
Anthony - Ex Presidente
www.xtbbf.org

Orion Cup - June 8, 2013
 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Reply with quote Back to top
Display posts from previous:     
Jump to:  
All times are
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Printable version Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Powered by PNphpBB2 © 2003-2009 The Zafenio Team
Credits