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Panico |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 05:06 AM
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Elyoukey wrote: TuernRedvenom wrote:
I think the organizers are doing a great job so far and are just being punished for doing a great job. Getting a venue for more then 600 people in Amsterdam is madness! .
i think the first question is about here, why Amsterdam, when you know the places will be limited ?
Quick question.
Everybody since December 2010, so AFTER the assignation to Amsterdam (why Amsterdam? Beacuse of a votation of a committee with no people from the countries involved in the 3 bids) are whining that 400 places were too few
Please somebody tell me why in DECEMBER 2009, ONE YEAR BEFORE, NOBODY criticized this point (number 6 in the list on the linked post)????
http://www.thenaf.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4790
NOBODY
That means that everybody were fine with a number of 400... or not?
The organizers placed a bid for 400 as requested, and NOBODY says nothing... then they expanded the number to 480 with big efforts.
I think that they are doing great.
I just wanna know why nobody sayd nothing before, and start saying 400 were to few only after!!! |
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Rodders |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 05:11 AM
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| Well said panico |
_________________
Crunching Carrots since 2007
southern UK RTC
I voted
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Pako |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 05:14 AM
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WC selection comitee members are still unknown.
WC country applications were never published.
WC venue selection criteria was also never published.
Yes, Panico, NOBODY said anything. Well said...
BTW
Quote: Hello,
Maybe it was already asked, but considering that almost 300 people join the first edition, and I guess we expect a lot more for the second one.. |
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Rodders |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 05:56 AM
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I would guess the comitee memebrs was along the lins of Prez tounament director and NTO's from USA, Canafda and Austrailia????????/ but i don't know
and 400 for wc2 over 300 for wc1 is alot more...
Just say to yourself if things went more your way would you be so bitter? i doubt it |
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Crunching Carrots since 2007
southern UK RTC
I voted
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 06:13 AM
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Rodders wrote: Just say to yourself if things went more your way would you be so bitter? i doubt it
No need to doubt: http://thenaf.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=5134&highlight=
Pako wrote: I want to be honest. I don't care about it before, and maybe I don't care about it if I was in WC II.
And while I think having the tourney over 2 locations is a bad decision, I have to applaud the efforts the Dutch guys are putting in. I think a more than 50% increase in numbers from WC1 to WCII (270-ish to 480) is "a lot". |
_________________
_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
Last edited by Darkson on Feb 24, 2011 - 06:16 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Elyoukey |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 06:14 AM
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Rodders wrote:
and 400 for wc2 over 300 for wc1 is alot more...
Just say to yourself if things went more your way would you be so bitter? i doubt it
i think the point is that the 400 was 'a lot more' but also 'a lot underestimated'
for me it was the naf job to get a correct number (poll, estimations according to the number of naf members inflation etc...). The mistake is around here. But i also know that it is not easy to get this number without having the place where the WC2 would take place.
Also for now the adjustements efforts (whatever hudge they are) are not enough since there are still people not on the boat. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 06:17 AM
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| I look forward to EL Prat's 1000-place bid for 2015. |
_________________
_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
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Panico |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 06:34 AM
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Pako wrote: WC selection comitee members are still unknown.
WC country applications were never published.
WC venue selection criteria was also never published.
Yes, Panico, NOBODY said anything. Well said...
For the third point, you have clear answer in the december 2009 post I linked
I don't know either who were on the committee, but Lycos talk about it in this discussion:
http://www.thenaf.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4406&start=90
The bidders were stated and it was Amsterdam, Modena and Biarritz
Quote: Hello,
Maybe it was already asked, but considering that almost 300 people join the first edition, and I guess we expect a lot more for the second one..
No nobody asked that in 2009, so I assume everybody were fine with 400 (50% more than 2007)
Justo to be clear Pako, you know I absolutely have nothing personal and I can imagine the bitter of your mood... but I really don't think is an organization failure! Just this. |
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Panico |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 06:37 AM
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Elyoukey wrote: i think the point is that the 400 was 'a lot more' but also 'a lot underestimated'
Fair- Definately correct. It was understimated.
But why saying it now and not in 2009 when the criteria for the bids were published in this same site? |
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Pako |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 06:38 AM
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Darkson wrote: I look forward to EL Prat's 1000-place bid for 2015.
Yeah. This is your answer only...
Recheck my posts. I appreciatte job done. Should I cite it again?
But.
Things were do not in the best way. IMO. Can I have one?
Maybe if the information I noted to Panico was given, someone (me or others) can said "Ok, I think [everywhere] is better because of 1000 places". I commented also RAI location in Amsterdam. That was the initial choice. I was there and it is fantastic. More than 1000 players allowed.
Then it was too much expensive. No one gets prices of RAI before Amsterdam application?
That's not the way.
I'm not doubting about Dave, Lucy and others, I'm just saying "PEOPLE ARE OUT. IS IT THE BEST WAY TO DO THINGS OR WE CAN IMPROVE IN THE FUTURE"?
I'm out. I know. I'm right. Disappointed but right.
Things should be done better.
Things were done as better A'dam people can.
But we should do it better. Because of people are out. They don't deserve it. And lot of things can be improved.
Feedback to my comments was just "Do you. try in 2015 yourself" or defensive posts like Panico's (BTW Darkson, all is right with Panico's typing, isn't it?)
It sounds to me that you can only say here:
"WEL DONE!"
Otherwise you will be burned. |
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Pako |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 06:47 AM
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Panico wrote:
Justo to be clear Pako, you know I absolutely have nothing personal and I can imagine the bitter of your mood... but I really don't think is an organization failure! Just this.
Not me either Luca. I think this is an organization failure. We disagree. That's it. I'm ready to bid El Prat 2015 and for sure I will type a proposal for NAF WC ruleset (oranization and gaming). I hope we will get it and Darkson can come to kiss me 
I have comments about NAF. I have an opinnion. It seems that I am a murderer or a child when I was trying to explain my thoughs about this.
No one of the comments you referred about venue choice or comitee were clarifiying.
Names and charge of comitee. Possible conflicts of interests.
List of applications with characteristics (place, venue, hotels, melas, etc).
Final score (relative importance) of each application.
Not any useful information was given. Give me a break. Highlits of points to consider? This is not I'm asking for.
Maybe sounds in a too much professional way. But you're moving 450 people arround the world. You should do things properly. Info! |
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Mur |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 06:54 AM
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Darkson wrote: I look forward to EL Prat's 1000-place bid for 2015.
Needless to say, we are seriously thinking about it..
I don't know who has said this but if we make our bid we'll start to make previsions to:
- a 400-place event
- a 600-place event
- a 800-place event
- a +1000-place event
Bullshit.. this was said by a friend in the spanish forum:
At last ONLY 6 TEAMS OUT! All the draft story to restrict 30 people. Is not possible to find a bigger side event venue?? I can't believe..
All people in please, this should be the most important fact of the NAFWC!! |
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Geggster |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 07:04 AM
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I think we can all say that if we were one of the few coaches missing out on the largest single BB event ever (almost by a factor of 2) we'd be very disappointed. VERY. So let's not start bandying around terms like bitter, please.
And we can also agree that the logistics of getting nearly 500 coaches together is a monumental task and should be heartily congratulated. Especially considering the effort to get even more going.
I was one of the voters. Every venue has a limit and you can't just expect a committee to run an event for "everyone that wants to come". What if there had been 550 places about but 600 wanted to go. That's a very real possibility for WCIII. You really can't get a handle of numbers 12 months in advance without a ticket price and you can't get a ticket price without knowing numbers. And of course, the bigger the venue, the higher price per ticket as you are well into corporate chequebook territory.
So the question has to be how do you fairly allocate the places? No-one has a right to go to an over-subscribed event (perhaps other than the defending champs). Coaches with no team association could be handicapped but that doesn't seem very fair. Teams with a small number of NAF games could also be handicapped but that's not very fair either.
I know some of the El Prat coaches personally. They are a good team, with a strong league, an auspicious history and are the type you want to catch up with in the bar. They are what the game is all about - and it's a real pity that they (and four other teams too) are going to miss out. Perhaps a team or two might not be able to commit to their place (out of 480, you'd expect a team or 2 to cancel) so maybe, just maybe we might see some of these 5 but let's not lose sight that it's disappointing for all that aren't going and that the organisers have bent over backwards to accommodate as many as possible. |
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NAF Treasurer
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Elyoukey |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 07:08 AM
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Panico wrote: Elyoukey wrote: i think the point is that the 400 was 'a lot more' but also 'a lot underestimated'
But why saying it now and not in 2009 when the criteria for the bids were published in this same site?
As stated in my post because we did not have the tools to validate or unvalidate this estimation. And we don't even know if the NAf had them. I would like to think that they did.
Pako's post do resume pretty well how the things could have been done better. |
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Pako |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2011 - 07:33 AM
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Thank you Geggster. I hope this can be discussed logically and in an adult way.
I have my point of view. I think things should be done better. I also think A'dam people did the best. The make a huge effort to rise up team slots. I'm out. That's not fine, but I got it...
Think is that all that stuff noted to me (for sure!) that we should change things.
If someone publish location applications maybe someone could suggest the number of places should be more.
Someone could suggest to perform a players prospection per country in each country forum.
...and so on.
No one did that.
Now, I'm out, and I have no things to do with WC otherwise that try to improve it for 2015. I will bid for 2015 if I get things very important for me (authorities suport, for example). If not, I will give up.
I'm disappointed with the NAF for not took into account these things. I think maybe no one could imagine that but, if so, should be NAF directors and comitee, not me. I don't thing A'dam organizers should took into account if NAF gave them the "OK" to their application.
I guess is fair to discuss about it. Firstly because I am out and I can ponit these things out. Second because I was discussing about it prior to be out. And finally because it will improve WCIII.
I will point out the topics to be consider in future. Discuss it in a thread for WCIII and hopefully change things that I guess NAF is not doing so well.
Can we do that?
Most of replies were about crying, bitter, etc. Ok, mess it up. I know korgluk was dissapointed with all stuff from the very beginning and his way is no proper way to do things, but he is in the worst situation that an enthusiastic BB player could be...
And I still belive people that came WCI should had preferent place. Beside this, we can learn about it or just say "Well done!" and that's it.
Well, I think if someone reamins out, no one organizer (talking from SkullCup organizer point of view) could feel like job is "well done". |
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