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KorglukOffline
Post subject: What's the difference between NAFWCI and NAFWCII?  PostPosted: Feb 23, 2011 - 04:31 PM



Joined: Jul 09, 2005
El Prat de Llobregat
Posts: 8
Location: El Prat de Llobregat
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In 1998 5 people found the LBN in small city El Prat, later they would happen to call G5.

From 5 players up to more than 30 players in 13 years:
http://www.lbnweb.com/historia.php

In 2007 we have the first graphical document of LBN History.LBN TEAM plays Dream Team Cup (biggest spanish bb tournament):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zufz_slwsYE&feature=related

In summer 2007 LBN organizes a secret bb tournament in a secret place with people from different countries!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOIrAjEKrSw

In the final 2007 a new organization (PGA) appears to try to steal to the G5 the power of the LBN!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY8_hd14Eeg&feature=related

In 2008 LBN plays Dirty Player Cup... you can see the final of tournament in a big stadium behind two dancers!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meFq35dy5qI&feature=related

In summer 2008 starts the 14ªLBN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrYQfpHf_SE&feature=related

In September 2008 PGA (Dark Side) tries to dominate de LBN from darkness but G-5 (Jedis) resists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAWvyXG07_Y&NR=1

In Febrary 2009 G5 plays another Dream Team Cup, korgluk(minotaur), pako(ideologist), Volstagg(norse), Eolallo(wardancer) and Soward(just Soward!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFUZiSPTvgU&feature=related

Surely you think that they don't play their matches like that, are you sure?
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lukechin19#p/u/28/ANh135fxXLw

Skull Cup'09 Preview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxrhCNWHR2U&feature=related

El Prat TV report Skull Cup'09
http://www.elprat.tv/?lnkVid=515

November 2009. Traveling with The LBN! Dutty Free... road to Modena
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gjvw5rTL7M&feature=rec-LGOUT-real_rev-rn-1r-4-HM

Skull Cup'10 Intro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzVDLR2N0XU

Korgluk managed to exile Volstagg and to be done by the power of the LBN for years. Finally Volstagg returned to take revenge in Skull Cup 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im3Vh0XNWK8&feature=related

DirtyPlayerCup'10
7:00 am from Saturday tournament, 2 hours to round 1... all people sleep?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEdFLylU_wY&feature=related

Santakolisseum Tag Team'10, Pako and Eolallo 'playing' BB like G5 plays!
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lukechin19#p/u/2/2iZ-1g_9M5A

In 2007 G5 played NAFWCI. In NAFWCI there was one team supported by his city, our Mayor decided to subsidize part of the costs in order that represent The Prat in the bb world cup.

In 2008 we try that will be considered to be a country like we feel as such. We just asked to including El Prat in the list the countries of the ranking... it's was impossible... Finally all players from El Prat put like Monaco as you can see at ranking.

We don't play BB... we live BB since 1998 and I cannot believe that LBN wolln't play NAFWC, we have been waiting 4 years to return to NAFWC!

I'm the LBN president and I need that NAF explains to me why the LBN doesn't play NAFWC! I know that there are teams with players not-registred in NAF still!!!

The difference between NAFWCI and NAFWCII is that the country with biggest porcentage of bloodbowl players will not play NAFWC.

EDIT: If someone prefers pics we have more than thousand...
http://public.fotki.com/korgluk/
 
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CabezacuboOffline
Post subject: RE: What  PostPosted: Feb 23, 2011 - 11:41 PM



Joined: May 01, 2007
Málaga (Spain)
Posts: 8
Location: Málaga (Spain)
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LBN must play NAFWC!
LBN is the best league and group of players that I´ve ever meet. Their spirit is all that Blood Bowl should be and the Skull Cup (their spanish tourney) is simply the best.

GO LBN!GO GO GO!
 
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DoubleskullsOffline
Post subject: RE: What  PostPosted: Feb 23, 2011 - 11:51 PM
Ex-Rulz Committee


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Because other people want to go too, and not everyone can fit in the venue. Just because your league has a long and auspicious history doesn't give you any advantage - and nor should it.

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ElyoukeyOffline
Post subject: RE: What  PostPosted: Feb 24, 2011 - 01:31 AM



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Notice that same demonstration could be done with the MBBC, organising one of the most famous tournament (Bowl des vignes) in France, and growing coaches for years.
And what about the French Naf coordonator (Sebco himself) who could not participate ...

i think everybody is 'sorry' (exact term depending of their position in the list) for the lack of space for the WCII.
speaking about myself, i would be ready to pay double the price if it managed some space for those teams to enter. (but no, i am not altruist enough to concede my place)

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PakoOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 24, 2011 - 02:35 AM



Joined: Jul 15, 2005
Spain
Posts: 471
Location: Spain
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I can understand Korgluk. I am very disappointed too. But also I think this way will not work at all. Sorry Padiblatter...

Saying so.

I think NAF management of NAF WC II was horrible.

NAF, as any organized group of people or club, should grant somehow its more veteran members. That's because are veteran members the ones that supported NAF in previous years. The ones that demonstrate commitement with the organization. Most of clubs, organizations or groups have special offers, advantadges to pick events or prizes for veteran members.

NAF does not.

Not only that. You're sending out NAF WC II a group of people who is coming to NAF events for 6 years, organizing a very popular NAF event in Spain, bla bla bla...

New people coming NAF WC II deserve the opportunity to feel the experience. Agree. NAF WC should not be limited in terms of space. Hope so in the future. But when we have limited places... From NAF point of view new people are a question. Will they remain in the NAF and add their effort and enthusiasm? Or they forget about NAF in couple of years? For sure no perfect solution is possible in present situation, but I don't think all the people gave NAF the same. So, as WC is "the NAF tourney", should not be for the players to more supported NAF?

From the point of view of an organization, who depends on membership fidelity, management of WC II is countersingning its interests.

What about (I'm just wondering) if LBN turns SkullCup non-NAF, stops to travel and ends their NAF membership? In that case, NAF will lose 6 active, commited members, to allow 6 other people (who, by the way, can give NAF more than LBN, OR NOT) to come.

Maybe NAF will lose 12 people.

I'm not saying that newbies will be forbidden. I'm saying that, in case of conflict, NAF depends on players. Veteran players supported NAF and also NAF WC I. What about if we never came first time? Could be a NAF WC II? Guess not.

Critical point is that this is not a regular tourney. This is the NAF tourney. For NAF players. And if some NAF players gave NAF more than others. They deserve more than others.

If, as I suggested a year ago, NAF WC organization or NAF by itself guaranted veteran players to come, NAF as organization gave a prize to its members related with their support in past years. That's a good point for an institution which wants people joining AND REMAINING.

From my point of view, explained couple of times, never eared, NAF is going wrong.

Moreover. The thing that really bites me is that Eurobowl is NAF-sanctioned, and in fact it haves priorities in terms of joining. I don't want to ear about Eurobowl is "special" or such this type of crab. NAF is changing their mind depending on the tourney and players involved. Not fair. Simply not fair.

Turn Eurobowl frist come, frist served. Don't want it? Hummmm I see...in Eurobowl all players don't deserve to play...

NAF don't care.

Get it.

Don't you think that for a such a veteran player, who never will play Eurobowl (I'm not such veteran enough) and in not going to play NAF WC II (no matter how veteran I am) NAF is simply laughing in my face?

Thank you NAF.

My tourney is NAF, 3€ discount each NAF player for counting for the fucking ranking (never care about it) and a White metal trophy.

6 years NAF membership

Came to the NAF WC I (by the way, saving your ass in that risky bussiness, don't think I deserve some grateful to support you with a 600€ travel?).

What do NAF for me?

Less than nothing. Fucking the tourney that I was expecting for 4 years. For sure I wanted to pay yo 4 years ago my ticket for 2011. A year ago I was asking for joining. Before lottery I was asking why this way.

Why this way.

We do us the same for you than all NAF members? If you think so. Well... no comments.

My two cents. Thank you. I will be shocked if any response (not can imagine official one) comes. Rolling Eyes
 
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Darkson
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 24, 2011 - 03:05 AM



Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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With attitudes like this, maybe best you're not coming to WCII.

"I'm special - me me me! It's all about me!"


Maybe next time you can submit a bid to the NAF with unlimited space, where the world and their uncle can come, seeing as you think it's so easy?

And what makes you think having NAF numbers in the '000s (7383 and 7407) makes you veterans - there are people with numbers lower than mine (102) that have missed out. A NAF member is a NAF member, regardless of whether they're #10 or #10000 - there is no "Veteran Premium".


You missed out on a over-subscribed tournament in a random draw - Stop whining.

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#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
 
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PakoOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 24, 2011 - 03:22 AM



Joined: Jul 15, 2005
Spain
Posts: 471
Location: Spain
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      Darkson wrote:
With attitudes like this, maybe best you're not coming to WCII.

"I'm special - me me me! It's all about me!"



You missed out on a over-subscribed tournament in a random draw - Stop whining.


This is not the case.

1- If you're member of Real Madrid C.F. , Reader's Club, a young club, etc. you have extra points with time. Isn't it? Rolling Eyes

2- This is not because we were out. Check my posts. This is my point BEFORE random draw... Cool

3- This is not because us. Is about NAF policy with members. I'm right with you in before me... I just want to know if NAF don't care about how much time you are here.

4- Eurobowl is also an over-subscribed tournament. Let's put random draw. Twisted Evil

      Quote:
With attitudes like this, maybe best you're not coming to WCII.


5- What attitude? Discuss about NAF policy? Express my opinion? Point out Eurobowl privileges? Hummmm... Thank you for your kindly opinion and positive discuss about my thoughts...

Rolling Eyes
 
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Darkson
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 24, 2011 - 03:40 AM



Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Where does it say that the length of time you've been a member of the NAF means you get first "dibs" to the WC?

The Charter? No.
The WCII rules? No.
The WCI rules and follow-up? No.
The Presidents/NTOs/any NAF staff you care to mentions manifesto? No.

Just because Club A gives a bonus for "length of time", doesn't automatically mean that Club B does.

The NAF doesn't.

      Pako wrote:
5- What attitude?

If you can't see any attitude in your post, then maybe you need to stop posting.

_________________
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#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)


Last edited by Darkson on Feb 24, 2011 - 03:41 AM; edited 1 time in total
 
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TuernRedvenomOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 24, 2011 - 03:40 AM



Joined: Dec 28, 2003

Posts: 142

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1. Eurobowl is not organised by the NAF.
2. If you think you can do better please make a bid for 2015.
3. Even though I think it's a horrible idea, who would decide which coaches are "more veteran"?

I think the organizers are doing a great job so far and are just being punished for doing a great job. Getting a venue for more then 600 people in Amsterdam is madness! We'll have to see how managing 460 coaches will go anyway. THIS WILL BE THE LARGEST BB TOURNEY EVER BY A LONG SHOT! Getting in over your head would be a big mistake.

It's too bad you missed out, and I understand that you're upset. But laying the guilt on the NAf and the organisers is shortsighted and egocentric IMO.
 
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ElyoukeyOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 24, 2011 - 03:56 AM



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      TuernRedvenom wrote:

I think the organizers are doing a great job so far and are just being punished for doing a great job. Getting a venue for more then 600 people in Amsterdam is madness! .

i think the first question is about here, why Amsterdam, when you know the places will be limited ? probably this will be poped regularly this year, but we heard about other project proposing unlimited places with easy access.
for me the first mistake was to choose Amsterdam, but now it is done.
the random draw was not a good thing, but directelly came from the first decision.
For me it would have been better to select the team according to the number of NAF tournament there members participated in for the last 2 years.
This would have made a "NAF" world cup.

now at the point of today, i think that there will be desistements and probably finally everybody who want and can come will be able to, but it will not be thanks to the first decision.

And in anyway, we can not change things now, so whining and roaming in rage will not bring anything. we just have to live with this incomplete World Cup.
 
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TuernRedvenomOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 24, 2011 - 04:10 AM



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      Elyoukey wrote:

i think the first question is about here, why Amsterdam, when you know the places will be limited ?

WC 2007 was also limited and was not sold out. WC 2011 has 50% extra places. I don't think anyone would have guessed it was going to be so popular.

As to why amsterdam, I can only guess:
* it's in the middle of europe
* it's a big city with many things to see, especially important for those that come from far away and want to make it a full fledged vacation with their family
* it's easy to reach by car, train, ferry and airplane
* if you know the history of NAF tournaments in europe you'd know that amsterdam is a very special place for the tournament circuit

Do you think you would have had 460 coaches from all over the world be interested to come to some little village somewhere in the ardennes for example?
 
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PakoOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 24, 2011 - 04:11 AM



Joined: Jul 15, 2005
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Replies.

As Elyoukey said. NAF mistake was to not prospect number of WC players coming. Then to select Amsterdam. Can I do it better? Hope so. I will apply for 2015. This is your answer, "do you!"? I guess a forum is a place to throw opinions and comments. Think NAF forum is different?

@ Darkson. In fact, was a OMM post in which they consider NAF WC I teams to have preference... Should I cite it? No answer about change in their mind...

@ Tuernredvenom. Does it mean that I can organized an invitational, NAF-sanctioned tourney? Rolling Eyes

About attitude. Please guys, read my previous posts. I'm fine with being out. I don't want to it will be repeated in 2015. I'm pointing out errors (IMO) and placing my thoughts about NAF behaviour. I posted in official thread "Enjoy it for us", and couple of nice memories. What's wrong? I'm saying this that countersign "Wow, well done!"? I said that understand the effort. Many times. I said I not agree with WCII policy. I hope NAF will clarify rules in the future for WCIII WCIV and so on.

First of all I clarified I not agree korgluk first post in the thread.

Not all the things in life is just to say "ok, they tried the best, that's it". Think we can disagree, suggest and discuss. We are adults. Are we?


Last edited by Pako on Feb 24, 2011 - 04:20 AM; edited 1 time in total
 
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Darkson
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 24, 2011 - 04:15 AM



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      Pako wrote:
@ Darkson. In fact, was a OMM post in which they consider NAF WC I teams to have preference... Should I cite it? No answer about change in their mind...

Go ahead.

_________________
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#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
 
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PakoOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 24, 2011 - 04:24 AM



Joined: Jul 15, 2005
Spain
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      Darkson wrote:
      Pako wrote:
@ Darkson. In fact, was a OMM post in which they consider NAF WC I teams to have preference... Should I cite it? No answer about change in their mind...

Go ahead.


Here you have Razz

      Pako 25th Jan wrote:
Hello,

Maybe it was already asked, but considering that almost 300 people join the first edition, and I guess we expect a lot more for the second one... is there any consideration to give priority to the teams that joined the first World Cup edition? Or all we just should to be aware to inscribe?


      Old_Man_Monkey 7th Mar wrote:
Thanks, Gav, for the question - here hopefully are some answers:

1. to date, I have received three serious bids: two from France, one from Italy
2. I have asked the following NAF members to be part of the evaluation group: LouisX, Longshot, Aramil, Panico, Dutch Dave, and Norse. There will be at least two others added to the group, which also includes our President Lycos and Treasurer-elect Geggster.
3. It could be possible to have an 'early' signing on period for those teams which attended the first WC - there would have to be a stipulation that at least four/five of the original six members are part of the group, but it may be possible.
4. I look to make the choice still at the end of March but should an added week or two become needed, I ask for your patience.

That's it for now - more soon!
OMM


I know not sure was said. On the other hand no news about it after subsequent questions about it. Should I cite again? Rolling Eyes
 
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Darkson
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 24, 2011 - 04:40 AM



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      Pako wrote:
3. It could be possible to have an 'early' signing on period for those teams which attended the first WC - there would have to be a stipulation that at least four/five of the original six members are part of the group, but it may be possible.

Just to underline the point you so nicely bolded for me - "could" and "may" - not "will".

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#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
 
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