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daloonieshamanOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 01, 2012 - 07:51 PM



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Just to chime in (using a megaphone in a tile bathroom)
The WC should have nothing to do with having 2 or 2000 people showing up.

If your sediment is that numbers count; than, I feel, you are against the spirit of the club.

Unless I totally misunderstand the ideal and goal of NAF and the WC it is to support and promote the sport bringing the better players together in one location.

That to me means that the location is the last factor of the equation. Yes it has a bearing. But if you want to be a part of the WC and think you have the ability to play at that level you will simply overcome the logistics. (other than work and direct family)
 
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generaljasonOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 01, 2012 - 09:08 PM



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      zootsuitjeff wrote:
You can call it realistic. I call it thinking small. I belong to the "if you build it they will come" camp. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm just trying to make it clear that not everyone in NA has the same opinion you guys do.


Jeff you can put it in any font you like. I'm not going to engage in who's being half empty and who's being half full here.

This is all I'm looking at for the current demographics of having a World Cup in Europe vs. North America:

01. The majority of tournament players world wide reside there. This is what I'm looking at for population of NA tournaments vs. European tournaments in 2008. The European ones I posted are mostly the larger ones, threw in a couple under 20's, but for North America I listed all the ones that happened at all:

This is just 2008. I bolded the ones that got 20 participants or more:

NORTH AMERICA:
ArisiaBowl III - (Massachusetts USA) - 8 players
Capital City Kick OFF 2008 (Ottawa CDN) - 16 players
Frozzty Bowl 2008 (Indianapolis USA) - 18 players
NSB Orca-Cola Kickoff Classic (Indianapolis USA) - 10 players
NSB St. Valentines Day Massacre II (Indianapolis USA) - 8 players
da Grots Cup (Red Deer CDN) - 8 players
NSB Dandelion Bowl (Indianapolis USA) - 10 players
STUPOR BOWL I (Bloomingdale USA) - 34 Players
The Challenge of Q'ermitt (Mississauga CDN) - 26 Players
Whippet Bowl (Shelby USA) - 10 Players
NSB Nuffles Fiesta Bowl (Indianapolis USA) - 10 players
StemFest '08 (Michigan USA) - 14 Players
Dagger Bowl I (Ottawa CDN) - 6 Players
Bongo Bowl 2008 (Mississauga CDN) - 8 Players
FABBL MINI (Arcadia USA) - 6 Players
Zlurpee Bowl IV (Indianapolis USA) - 54 Players
Brew City Blood Bath (West Allis USA) - 16 Players
Lakeside Cup II (Cobourg CDN) - 12 Players
Spike! Magazine 2008 (Vancouver CDN) - 32 Players
Streetparty USA III (Indianapolis USA) - 10 Players
GenCon 2008 (Indianapolis USA) - 36 Players
Carnage Cup (Holland USA) - 8 Players
Lil' Zlurp 08 (Indianapolis USA) - 16 Players
NSBCS Rumble in the Jungle (Indianapolis USA) - 10 Players
NBBO Bowl 2 (Niagara Falls CDN) - 10 Players
Chaos Cup 2008 (Downer's Grove USA) - 50 Players
Deathbowl VI (Ottawa CDN) - 20 Players
NSBCS Monster Mash the Return (Indianapolis USA) - 8 Players
NSBCS Brickyard Bash (Indianapolis USA) - 6 Players
Underworld Cup '08 (Racine USA) - 26 Players

EUROPE:
M'n'T League Open (Italy) - 30 Players
Poo Bowl 2 (England) - 28 Players
Dutch Open 2008 (Netherlands) - 92 Players
Ciococoppa II (Italy) - 22 Players
Waterbowl Weekender 2008 (England) - 44 Players
Bowl des Neiges V (France) - 42 players
Dream Team Cup '08 (Spain) - 106 Players
Dungeonbowl 2008 (Germany) - 64 Players
Royal Rumble 2008 (Italy) - 24 Players
Skull Cup'08 (Spain) - 54 Players
Flanders Chainsaw Massacre 2008 (Belgium) - 18 Players
Blitz! 2008 (Italy) - 22 Players
Euskal Turnover (France) - 30 Players
KlingenCon XXVI (Germany) - 16 Players
Brama Cup (Italy) - 32 Players
Fumbbles On Tour '08 (Spain) - 88 Players
Monkeybowl III (England) - 46 Players
Sunville Bowl (Belgium) - 14 Players
Leviathan (England) - 14 players
Pearly Kings and Queens 2008 (England) - 28 Players
MINIMOD BLOOD BOWL CUP (Italy) - 20 Players
Schnitzelbowl III (Austria) - 40 Players
Botz Bembel Bowl III (Germany) - 40 Players
Lutece Bowl 08 (France) - 72 Players
Tilean Team Cup 2008 (Italy) - 48 Players
Dirty Player Cup (Spain) - 36 Players
m@hobbit massacre (Netherlands) - 30 Players
The Blood Bowl 2008 (England) - 110 Players
Vinking Bowl (France) - 12 Players
BLOCK V (France) - 38 Players
Riot 2008 (Italy) - 22 Players
Massacre Day 2 (Belgium) - 16 Players
Colosseum 2008 (Italy) - 40 Players
Albabowl 2008 (England) - 40 Players
B7 2008 (Germany) - 64 Players
Dolphin's Shield IV 2008 (Italy) - 28 Players
BloodBowl des Vignes III (France) - 26 Players
CARROT CRUNCH II (England) - 12 Players
CartoonBowl 2008 (Spain) - 20 Players
Dadi & Sudore 2008 (Italy) - 22 Players
Rendez-vous Bloodbowl 6 (France) - 42 Players
SIDRABOWL 2008 (Spain) - 18 Players
Xufabowl´08 (Spain) - 18 Players
Reusrection'08 (Spain) - 20 Players
thrudbowl 2008 (England) - 34 Players
A'hof 24hrs of BB '08 (Netherlands) - 36 Players
Toy soldier 2008 (England) 20 Players
V Bilbali Cup (Spain) - 38 Players
Newquay Bowl 4 (England) - 18 Players
Oberonn Smack (Belgium) - 12 Players
Rugbowl 2008 (France) - 46 Players
Strongbowl III (England) - 18 Players
Barnabowl VI (Spain) - 56 Players
Karlsruher Pyramiden Cup (Germany) - 16 Players
Bowl Bec Cup 3 (France) - 12 Players
BUBBLE 2508 (Netherlands) - 30 Players
Go for Eat! 2008 (Italy) - 14 Players
II Odoloste Bowl (Spain) - 20 Players
HQ Bowl 2008 (Belgium) - 28 Players
ARBBL Open 2008 (England) - 14 Players
EMEN CUP II (Spain) - 32 Players
TRIPLE SKULL TEAM CUP 2008 (Italy) - 58 Players
Ghost Bowl 11 (Germany) - 28 Players
Valencia Master Bowl 08 (Spain) - 70 Players
Italian Open 2008 (Italy) - 32 Players
The Spiky Club Open 2008 (England) - 52 Players
NDC 2008 (Normandy Dragon's Cup) (France) - 38 Players
Tilean BloodBowl Pride I (Italy) - 14 Players
Eurobowl V (Spain) - 96 Players
Tritex Challenge 2008 (England) -24 Players
Ain Pact III (France) - 34 Players
Baden Basho 2008 (Germany) - 26 Players
GT - Tilean Cup 2008 (Italy) - 26 Players
Tabira Bowl 08 (Spain) - 38 Players
Catenaccio Bowl 08 (Spain) - 40 Players
Troll bowl 2008 (England) - 22 Players
KlingenCon XXVII (Germany) - 26 Players
Flame Bowl 2008 (England) - 36 Players
Nabot III (France) - 48 Players
Nikograus Bowl (Germany) - 12 Players
Brassbowl VI 2008 (Belgium) - 38 Players
Madbowl VI 2008 (Spain) - 78 Players


Wow that took a long time. Do I have to break down last year as well? Just look at the sheer number of tournaments alone in Europe vs. NA in 2008, but more importantly just look at the sheer concentration of tournament players there especially in the Majors, as well as France and Spain. Anyone of those 4 Blood Bowl nations can beat NA alone on numbers. And then of course they all happen to be right beside each other, with large communities in the Netherlands, Italy, Austria and Belgium as well.

02. This might just be me, but most of the places that I want to travel and possibly work a Blood Bowl trip around are in Europe. I'd travel to Vegas, I'd like to see New York, have relatives in Toronto, and would work Chicago into a St. Louis trip since I have relatives there too. I'd could probably be talked into Florida or Montreal as well, but for the most part it would be the European locations that would peak my interest in attending a future WC event.

The ones I don't have to be talked into are the local events like RCR in Seattle, and if ever Alberta or Oregon start hosting BB events.

03. I want World Cup to remain as big and as large as it can be. If that means keeping it in Europe for the time being then so be it. If North America could put in a bid for a 200+ coach event then I'm all for it, but North America as it stands right now cannot sustain this by itself whereas Europe does not need a single North American or Aussie coach to attend in order to make that happen. That's just the reality as I see it right now due to coaching concentration and geography. When those stats dramatically change I'll change my mind. Call me negative nancy or whatever but I'm just looking at the math above.

Gj.


Last edited by generaljason on Feb 01, 2012 - 09:44 PM; edited 3 times in total
 
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GlamdrynOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 01, 2012 - 09:12 PM



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Why did you look at 2008...?
 
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generaljasonOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 01, 2012 - 09:18 PM



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      Glamdryn wrote:
Why did you look at 2008...?


Happened to be the first year we hosted the Spike! and got it back to over 30 players attending. I was going to do 2008-2011 but it was taking too long just to do the one year - God there are a lot of tournaments in Europe. Wink
 
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zootsuitjeffOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 01, 2012 - 11:09 PM



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I'll say it once again, I don't think sheer numbers should be the only consideration. If it is then you win, but I don't agree. I also tend to think that you would prefer to attend a WC in Europe rather than NA because you are from NA. Logically it stands to reason that the majority of European NAF members would ideally like to attend a WC outside of Europe. Since the majority of NAF members are from Europe, that would be an argument for holding it outside of Europe.
 
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GrumbledookOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 01, 2012 - 11:20 PM



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the tournament scene in the UK has changed a lot since 2008, there is only really one "big" tournament now due to the proliferation of a massive amount of smaller tournaments

of course your point still remains valid regarding the player density and it was interesting to look through the numbers anyway ;]

wherever it is held it won't be able to please all the people, there will be non europeans who want to travel to europe and euros who want it to stay in europe

there are also non euros who would like it hosted elsewhere and also euros who would travel to it elsewhere

--------------------------

this could be used as a factor to get a naf euro open running in the middle of wc years, I think it would be nice to have a world cup outside europe

then coaches who wish to see europe can go to the open one as well perhaps?

at the end of the day I'm not too fussed where it is cause I like to travel overseas

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Darkson
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 02, 2012 - 12:55 AM



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      daloonieshaman wrote:
Unless I totally misunderstand the ideal and goal of NAF and the WC it is to support and promote the sport bringing the better players together in one location.

"Better" doesn't come into it.

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generaljasonOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 02, 2012 - 01:40 AM



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      Glamdryn wrote:
Why did you look at 2008...?


Here it goes:

This is just last year 2011. Jon's right that distribution has been spilt up a bit since 2008 in Europe into a lot of smaller tournaments but the big ones still kicking butt - especially in Spain.

Again I bolded the ones that got 20 participants or more:

NORTH AMERICA:
Put a Ring On It (Glendale Heights USA) - 38 Players
West Coast Quake 2011 (Los Angelas USA) - 22 Players
Capital City Kick OFF 2008 (Ottawa CDN) - 18 players
Dagger Bowl IV (Ottawa CDN) - 10 Players
Brew City Blood Bath (Kenosha USA) - 26 Players
Rat City Rumble I (Everett USA) - 32 Players
Headbangers Ball I (Downers Grove USA) - 16 players
Canadian Open (Mississauga CDN) - 12 Players
Rotten Bowl '11 (Indianapolis USA) - 10 Players
STUPOR BOWL IV (Lombard USA) - 28 Players
4 Diamonds Cup 2011 (Oberlin USA) - 16 Players
Royal Rumble (Indianapolis USA) - 16 players
The Special K Cup (Battle Creek USA) - 12 Players
Chromatic Cup 2011 (Walbridge USA) - 12 Players
Tri State Challenge II (Carlstadt USA) - 6 Players
Orion Cup 2011 (Toronto CDN) - 10 Players
The Golden Sweetbun 2011 (Lasalle CDN) - 20 Players
Thunderkrunch II (Vancouver CDN) - 14 Players
Origins Cup (Columbus USA) - 6 Players
Krrunch Bowl 2011 (Columbus USA) - 10 Players
WCQ Aftershock (Burbank USA) - 10 Players
Zlurpee Bowl VII (Indianapolis USA) - 52 Players
Lakeside Cup V (Cobourg CDN) - 12 Players
Indiana Summer I (Bloomington USA) - 6 Players
Streetparty USA VI (Indianapolis USA) - 10 Players
GenCon 2011 (Indianapolis USA) - 36 Players
Bunker Brawl III (Downers Grove USA) - 10 Players
Celesticon Rumble (Redwood City USA) - 6 Players
Spike! Magazine 2011 (Surrey CDN) - 56 Players
Chaos Cup 2011 (Downer's Grove USA) - 56 Players
Warpstone Cup (Niagara Falls CDN) - 12 Players
Orctoberfest II (Franklin USA) - 16 Players
Pub Bowl 2011 (New York USA) - 8 Players
Deathbowl IX (Ottawa CDN) - 20 Players
Iron Mike's BBT 2011 (Spokane USA) - 8 Players
Ghouls Night Out II (Downers Grove USA) - 10 Players
2011 Orcland Slaughter & Block Challenge (Oakland USA) - 14 Players
Blingtoof's Gitbash (Toronto CDN) - 12 Players
Nuffle's Fault (Altadena USA) - 6 Players
Power of '1' / Bongo Bowl (Ottawa CDN) - 10 Players
Underworld 2011 (Kenosha USA) - 14 Players
Avatar Open (Las Vegas USA) - 10 Players


EUROPE:
3-Königs-Turnier (Germany) - 8 Players
Poo Bowl 5 (England) - 30 Players
Evolution I - Hell in a Cell (Italy) - 24 Players
Melting Bowl II (France) - 14 Players
Winterbowl'11 (Spain) - 30 Players
24 Hours Midwinter Madness II (Belgium) - 24 Players
Silex Bowl III (France) - 20 Players
White Star Cup 2011 (Germany) - 8 Players
III REVABowl v.LRG (Spain) - 52 Players
Ironmanj Shield II (England) - 22 Players
Magalasso Open (Italy) - 8 Players
3º Septimo Bowl (Spain) - 36 Players
Casnewyyd Cup II (England) - 32 Players
Dutch Open 2011 (Netherlands) - 30 Players
Bowl des Neiges VIII (France) - 64 players
Fulginium Bowl IV 2011 (Italy) - 28 Players
Waterbowl Weekender 2008 (England) - 34 Players
Siberia-Gasteiz Kup (Spain) - 32 Players
Crom-A-Gnons IV (France) - 44 Players
Dream Team Cup '11 (Spain) - 104 Players
Belgian Championship (Belgium) - 12 Players
Belgian Open (Belgium) - 8 Players
Trophée de la Licorne V (France) - 24 Players
VaultCon 2011 (England) - 24 Players
Dungeonbowl 2011 (Germany) - 84 Players
ARBBL Open 2011 (England) - 38 Players
warp bowl (R2 R4) (France) - 30 Players
F.O.T. VI 2011 (Spain) - 74 Players
Royal Rumble 2011 (Italy) - 30 Players
CheeseBowl II (Switzerland) - 8 Players
Irungobbowl '11 (Spain) - 20 Players
Jour de Plomb 8 (France) - 40 Players
Monkeybowl VI (England) - 28 Players
Goblin Slaughterfest 2511 (Belgium) - 18 players
Mermaid Masters (Denmark) - 10 players
SOAPBOWL 2011 (France) - 32 Players
Vesevus 2011 (Italy) - 26 Players
KlingenCon XXXII (Germany) - 30 Players
Pearly Kings and Queens 2011 (England) - 24 Players
Breizh Bowl III (France) - 36 Players
Lutece Bowl 08 (France) - 60 Players
RIOT VI ed. (Italy) - 10 Players
Tri Rhena Cup II (Switzerland) - 14 Players
L.A. BloodBowl Cup II (France) - 20 Players
The Blood Bowl 2011 (England) - 188 Players
Belgian Beer Bowl (Belgium) - 12 Players
SantaKOlisseum 2011 Spain) - 52 Players
Tilean Team Cup 2011 (Italy) - 72 Players
BLOCK VIII (France) - 26 Players
Royal Rumble 2011 (France) - 14 Players
Block Around The Clock (England) - 16 Players
Blood Bowl Colossevm A.D. MMXI (Italy) - 16 Players
Cake Bowl (England) - 20 Players
Carthago bowl III (Spain) - 28 Players
Schnitzelbowl VI (Austria) - 6 Players
Albabowl 2011 (Scotland) - 16 Players
AlsaBowl (France) - 24 Players
Massace day 5 (formaly known as massacre day (Belgium) - 12 Players
Danish Open 2011 (Denmark) - 20 Players
m@hobbit massacre (Netherlands) - 20 Players
COUPE VESUNNA IV (France) - 30 Players
Dolphin's Shield VII 2011 (Italy) - 28 Players
OPEN FEBL'11 (Spain) - 24 Players
Spiky Challenge Cup (England) - 26 players
B7 2011 (Germany) - 74 Players
White Isle Star Bowl (England) - 36 Players
California Bowl (France) - 8 Players
CARROT CRUNCH V (England) - 38 Players
Rendez-vous Bloodbowl 9 (France) - 42 Players
Bristol Gert Bowl (England) - 26 Players
xufabowl 2011 (Spain) - 16 Players
DOUBT 2011 (Sweden) - 8 Players
Santiagos 2011 (Spain) - 12 Players
HQ Summer Jam (Belgium) - 10 Players
Euskal 2011 (France) - 28 Players
Toy soldier 2011 (England) - 16 Players
VIII Bilbali Cup (Spain) - 20 Players
24 ORE di Bloodbowl (Italy) - 40 Players
Thrudbowl 2011 (England) - 38 Players
Amar Garden Bowl II (Denmark) - 6 Players
Strongbowl 2011 (England) - 14 Players
Rugbowl 2011 (France) - 96 Players
Ludi Flaminii (Italy) - 20 Players
The Albion Coast Cup VII (England) - 10 Players
BUBBLE 2511 (Netherlands) - 10 Players
GeordieBowl III (England) - 22 Players
Mojonbowl 2011 (Spain) - 26 Players
Exile 3:The Rise of the Cheerleaders (England) - 40 Players
IIº Unako Tournament 24 horas (Spain) - 30 Players
Blood-Bowl and Caux Challenge (France) - 24 Players
EM5N CUP (Spain) - 42 Players
HQ-bowl anniversary edition (Belgium) - 32 Players
Vaultbowl 2 (England) - 20 Players
BBOING! (England) - 16 Players
Ghost Bowl 14 (Germany) - 18 Players
HBL Breetlooks Bowl (Germany) - 12 Players
II Patatonia Cup- Naf Edition (Spain) - 12 Players
IV Cheesebowl (Spain) - 10 Players
Kurpfalz Cup III (Germany) - 10 Players
Mermaid Blood Bowl Cup 2011 (Denmark) - 10 Players
OctoBowl II (France) - 10 Players
STABB Cup (England) - 24 Players
Coupe Teflon (France) - 24 Players
Ironmanj Onedayer III - The Lottery (England) - 22 Players
La Coupe des Loups 2 (France) - 10 Players
The Spiky Club Open (England) - 22 Players
Italian Open 2011 (Italy) - 22 Players
Rocket Bowl III - The Third Stage (England) - 34 Players
Valencia Masterbowl 2011 (Spain) - 48 Players
Bunker Bowl II (England) - 30 Players
Von Drakenburgs Mitternachtsturnier (Germany) - 22 Players
NDC 2011 (Normandie Dragon's Cup) (France) - 38 Players
Desert Trophy III (Spain) - 28 Players
DragonBowl IV (France) - 8 Players
KlingenCon XXXIII (Germany) - 36 Players
Ambowl II (France) - 30 Players
Baden Basho 2011 (Germany) - 18 Players
The Autumn 1 dayer (England) - 8 Players
World Cup II (Netherlands) - 480 Players
Ain Pact VII (France) - 22 Players
Catenaccio Bowl (IX edition) (Spain) - 44 Players
SOAP night 2011 (France) - 24 Players
Cambridge Double Trouble (England) - 28 Players
Tilean Cup 2011 (Italy) - 20 Players
Txipiroi Bowl IV edition (Spain) - 16 Players
Brassbowl IX (Belgium) - 40 Players
Brewerz Bowl (England) - 16 Players
NABOT 2011 (France) - 30 Players
MadBowl '11 (Spain) - 62 Players


Europe still kicking butt!


Last edited by generaljason on Feb 02, 2012 - 06:15 PM; edited 3 times in total
 
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DoubleskullsOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 02, 2012 - 01:49 AM
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      zootsuitjeff wrote:
You can call it realistic. I call it thinking small. I belong to the "if you build it they will come" camp. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm just trying to make it clear that not everyone in NA has the same opinion you guys do.


I think you are right. A good bid from North America would probably get over 100 inter-continental coaches going. There are about 30 Aussies who would go for a starter (since it doesn't matter to them), and then you are only asking 20% of the Europeans who attended WC2 to fly. Given there are over 50 at both majors I'd hope a World Cup could double that number of locals - making 200 a realistic goal. I for one would think that's a very competitive position against a 500 person European WC.

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DoubleskullsOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 02, 2012 - 01:58 AM
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@generaljason - The WC in European attracted about three times as many coaches as the next largest tournament - which if repeated would give you 150-200 local coaches plus ~100 intercontinental travellers.

Given the difficultly of travelling long distances to play I suspect you'd get an even bigger multiplier an more of those who don't normally attend tournaments going too.

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Last edited by Doubleskulls on Feb 02, 2012 - 02:00 AM; edited 1 time in total
 
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Darkson
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 02, 2012 - 02:00 AM



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Just to point out the touney numbers only include NAF coaches that played another NAF coch. Not sure it makes any difference, but just for completion. Wink

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generaljasonOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 02, 2012 - 02:06 AM



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      Darkson wrote:
Just to point out the touney numbers only include NAF coaches that played another NAF coch. Not sure it makes any difference, but just for completion. Wink


Oh I know - I had to look at some later rounds just to see if there were odd numbers so I could guess-ti-mate the total number. Smile

      zootsuitjeff wrote:
I'll say it once again, I don't think sheer numbers should be the only consideration. If it is then you win, but I don't agree. I also tend to think that you would prefer to attend a WC in Europe rather than NA because you are from NA. Logically it stands to reason that the majority of European NAF members would ideally like to attend a WC outside of Europe. Since the majority of NAF members are from Europe, that would be an argument for holding it outside of Europe.


Except like everybody else they would rather play tournaments in their own backyard - especially since everyone in Europe is close and flights are cheap. I couldn't even get Greyhound in North America as cheap as the distance they would be able to fly in Europe. Like I said, they have at least 8 strong Blood Bowl Nations over there that are tightly nit together, whereas we have about 4-5 hotspots on opposite ends of the continent. Now if they were all beside each other and the central part of the continent did not exist we'd be in better shape. Also if West and East did more cross travelling to our own existing singles competitions rather than about 98% within driving distance I'd take total numbers from North America more seriously.

As for my travelling preferences to Europe: I'm European, have a lot of relatives there, and I'm a history major, meaning Europe is a lot more interesting to me then let's say Winnipeg or Delaware - and that would go for European residents as well I think.

Look man all I'm just saying is that until we catch up in numbers, and our current large tournaments actually start getting some serious cross travelling within North America I don't think we're ready to host the World Cup yet.
 
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Darkson
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 02, 2012 - 03:47 AM



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As aBrit, I've always wanted to go to Oz and the US. :p Wink

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generaljasonOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 02, 2012 - 03:49 AM



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Yeah and I've always wanted to go to the moon Simon. Wink
 
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GlamdrynOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 02, 2012 - 07:29 AM



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This is a dumb argument. There will be bids from the states along with bids from Europe and most likely Australia. Let's just let the bids speak for themselves.

I am confident a World Cup in any country will break the 200 participant barrier and that is all that participation should factor into it.
 
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