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generaljason |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 01:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 04, 2009
British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 439
Location: British Columbia, Canada
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Glamdryn wrote: This is a dumb argument. There will be bids from the states along with bids from Europe and most likely Australia. Let's just let the bids speak for themselves.
I am confident a World Cup in any country will break the 200 participant barrier and that is all that participation should factor into it.
You can't be that dismissive to a discussion when the question of the thread was - whether we should automatically move the World Cup every 8 years out of Europe just so we placate North America? No. Stupid argument? This is a stupid thread.
And why, because unlike many of the dismissive and diluted I'm not ignoring the math. At this moment in time Europe will always put on a bigger and better event. So even if I back up that point I'm not allowed to make it? Just close the friggen thread then.
<deep breath> No North American tournament has ever broken the 70-player mark. That's because even the big ones, namely the Spike!, Chaos Cup, Zlurpee Bowl and Gencon get over 90% of their participants within driving distance. Yet once we put those numbers into some fanciful World Cup Equation then bada bing bada boom we suddenly have 150-200 locals suddenly willing to travel and participate. Sorry dude but I'm just not getting there - you'll have to break down the formula for me.
Also. How is North America suppose to have 150-200 participants all on it's own anyway when the maximum number of teams per country even last year for France was 8? Canada and US had 4 each max last year, and even if you increased that to 8 each and instead of 8 total, that's still only 96 eligible players - nowhere near 150-200 coaches.
Again guys don't hate me - all I'm doing is the extrapolations and not subscribing to the "I think I can I think I can" camp. I'd be the first to want to see a World Cup here on North American soil provided we had some solid proven numbers to make it a success.
Anybody who has broken even the 50-coach mark at an NA tournament please feel free to post. If we can supposedly attract 150-200 coaches within NA very easily then I guess North America doesn't have one TO that apparently knows what he's doing. By the way I don't believe that so let's not go off on a tangent about that.
Look - in order to get a 200+ event in North America something would have to happen that has never happened in the history of tournament play before. Scores of people would have to travel transcontinentally and transatlantically to attend a Blood Bowl tournament. Even in the last 2 years of hosting World Cup this happened 3 times in 2007 right (AU,AU,USA), and just 5 times in 2011 (USA, CDN, AU, AU, AU)?. Last year that's 30 people. You expect Europe to triple or quintiple that then you are asking them to do something that most North Americans aren't even willing to do themselves (I did try). Such a turn of events would be dramatic, and so it should not be casually brushed over like it was the norm.
When North America uses ALL their World Cup tickets in 2015, sends 4 teams from Canada and 4 teams from the USA and we're still chomping at the bit for more than we might be getting some where.
but yeah, silly thread. Big no imho (for now). Like you said I also have no problems with any club from anywhere trying to put in a bid to host the World Cup, as long as that bid is based on tangibles and not sentiment. All I'm doing is arguing against the idea to make it an automatic process (title of the thread) that it must move no matter what.
Anyway some of you guys are taking this way too much to heart, like I just enlightened you to the truth about Santa Claus. I don't mean to be the harbinger, nor do I want to be, but just trying to present the facts before some people start getting carried away.
Respectfully,
Gj. |
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Glamdryn |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 01:49 PM
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North American tournaments have not broken the 100 player mark, truth.
The World Cup in North America would break the 200 player mark because (wild speculation) it is the World Cup.
I won't fly out to the West Coast for Spike, but I would fly out to the West Coast for the World Cup and I think a lot of other coaches in North America feel the same way. I think that is the "If You Build It, They Will Come" logic.
Bid trumps wild speculation. |
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generaljason |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 01:54 PM
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Glamdryn wrote: North American tournaments have not broken the 100 player mark, truth.
The World Cup in North America would break the 200 player mark because (wild speculation) it is the World Cup.
I won't fly out to the West Coast for Spike, but I would fly out to the West Coast for the World Cup and I think a lot of other coaches in North America feel the same way. I think that is the "If You Build It, They Will Come" logic.
Bid trumps wild speculation.
then why don't they go to Europe? East to West is nearly the same price as East to Europe? Problem is "if you build it, most will watch it from their tv."
And you won't fly out to Spike!? Your just proving my point. If British Columbia, Washington State, Oregon and LA were right beside Chicago, Ontario, Quebec, Indiana and New York, just like the Netherlands, Denmark, Germany, Italy, France, Switzerland, Spain, Sweden, Belgium, Austria and the UK were you probably would. Like me you'd probably hit every local tournament if North America was hooked up like that. But were not. |
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Glamdryn |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 02:35 PM
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generaljason wrote: Glamdryn wrote: North American tournaments have not broken the 100 player mark, truth.
The World Cup in North America would break the 200 player mark because (wild speculation) it is the World Cup.
I won't fly out to the West Coast for Spike, but I would fly out to the West Coast for the World Cup and I think a lot of other coaches in North America feel the same way. I think that is the "If You Build It, They Will Come" logic.
Bid trumps wild speculation.
then why don't they go to Europe? East to West is nearly the same price as East to Europe? Problem is " if you build it, most will watch it from their tv."
And you won't fly out to Spike!? Your just proving my point. If British Columbia, Washington State, Oregon and LA were right beside Chicago, Ontario, Quebec, Indiana and New York, just like the Netherlands, Denmark, Germany, Italy, France, Switzerland, Spain, Sweden, Belgium, Austria and the UK were you probably would. Like me you'd probably hit every local tournament if North America was hooked up like that. But were not.
I will be disappointed if a superior bid/venue loses out to a weaker bid/venue simply because of it (the superior bid/venue) being located in North America, which is what you are pushing. |
Last edited by Glamdryn on Feb 02, 2012 - 02:45 PM; edited 1 time in total
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generaljason |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 04:09 PM
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If the superior/bid venue loses out to a weaker/bid venue I will be disappointed.
Suggesting that if any World Cup is ever held on North American soil, regardless of whether it also happened to be the superior/bid venue that year would disappoint me is retarded.
Right now North America is not the superior/bid venue, and not by the longest shot. When it is, and only when it is, should the WC move to North America for a year.
I think my position is pretty clear so you don't need to put words in my mouth. |
Last edited by generaljason on Feb 02, 2012 - 04:09 PM; edited 1 time in total
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Phil78 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 04:09 PM
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Totally off topic but "Albabowl 2011 (England)"
Hoomin will be raging ![Very Happy](modules/PNphpBB2/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif) |
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Sebco |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 04:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 03, 2004
France
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A bit off topic too, but you wrote "Bowl des Neiges VIII (France) - 38 players" for 2011. It surprised me as we were 64 players and most of them were NAF. I looked on the NAF results website and it is said we were 49 NAF players. It seems to me that it is really nearer from the truth.
[and yes, I know, it doesn't really change your demonstration, but I saw that by accident and couldn't resist to intervene in this topic] |
_________________ NAF Membership Director + France NC
Bowl des Neiges XIX : 2022 february 26th & 27th
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generaljason |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 04:58 PM
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Sebco wrote: A bit off topic too, but you wrote "Bowl des Neiges VIII (France) - 38 players" for 2011. It surprised me as we were 64 players and most of them were NAF. I looked on the NAF results website and it is said we were 49 NAF players. It seems to me that it is really nearer from the truth.
[and yes, I know, it doesn't really change your demonstration, but I saw that by accident and couldn't resist to intervene in this topic]
weird, but looking at so many and doing a lot of copying and pasting I most have mistyped. Fixed. Done. Thanks for the update.
Phil78 wrote: Totally off topic but "Albabowl 2011 (England)"
Hoomin will be raging ![Very Happy](modules/PNphpBB2/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)
It's in there man, right after Schnitzelbowl 2011. Albabowl 2011 (England) - 16 players. Hoomin will be fine. ![Wink](modules/PNphpBB2/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif) |
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daloonieshaman |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 05:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 28, 2003
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NA WC 2015 those of us really willing to run it do not see it to be logical.
2019 there is no reason why NA will not win the bid.
point 1. in NA there will be no restriction on the number of players from any country.
point 2. we will have 2+ NATC under our belt
point 3. with the current growth of the tournament scene we will be able to field over 100 in 7 years
point 4. GJ stop being an arse, you spoke your peace.
point 5. In 7 years regular big event attendance should average 120, if we do what we are suppose to.
point 6. NA NAF membership is currently at an all time high, figure the current growth compared to the next 7 years |
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zootsuitjeff |
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Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 05:29 PM
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generaljason wrote:
Right now North America is not the superior/bid venue, and not by the longest shot. When it is, and only when it is, should the WC move to North America for a year.
See it's when you make declarations like this, I am bothered by it. I think I understand your position and you are entitled to it, but I think a lot of the criteria for what is the "best" venue is subjective and based on what factors you are considering. You seem to argue that past attendance numbers should be the only factor in determining what is best, I think other factors should be included, including a factor for considering that the WC should ideally move around the world. I can agree to disagree with you on what criteria we should be using to determine what the best venue is. But please don't make these declarative statements presuming that we have to use the criteria that you prefer to use.
Hopefully a NATC event next year can be successful and the numbers we are talking about will be somewhat different. |
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Phil78 |
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Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 05:52 PM
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generaljason, i know it's in the list. But trust me, it's not in England. |
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generaljason |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 06:39 PM
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Phil78 wrote: generaljason, i know it's in the list. But trust me, it's not in England.
Opps. Didn't see Edinburgh. Damn picky Scots. Fixed.
daloonieshaman wrote:
point 4. GJ stop being an arse, you spoke your peace.
Dennis I don't characterize any of your posts with this kind of bs so I'd appreciate if you did the same. It's a character assassination - read me posts: none of them attack the reader but attack the point. Please try to do the same in future.
As for 'speaking my peace', the way the internet works is if you keep talking to me I'm going to keep responding. Best way to get anybody to go away is to stop talking to them. If your super bid for 1,000 players+ in a NA WC pans out what do you care if I present math to you?
zootsuitjeff wrote:
See it's when you make declarations like this, I am bothered by it. I think I understand your position and you are entitled to it, but I think a lot of the criteria for what is the "best" venue is subjective and based on what criteria you are using. You seem to argue that past attendance numbers should be the only factor in determining what is best, I think other factors should be included, including a factor for considering that the WC should ideally move around the world. I can agree to disagree with you on what criteria we should be using to determine what the best venue is. But please don't make these declarative statements presuming that we have to use the criteria that you prefer to use.
Hopefully a NATC event next year can be successful and the numbers we are talking about will be somewhat different.
What I'm bothered about is how some guys on here can gloss over, so casually, what getting 150-200 coaches really means in North America. Especially when many of the guys presenting the arguments have not broken the 30-coach mark in North America at their own tournaments. And that's not a knock but unfortunately another reality. So yeah if it sounds to me like some of the guys are talking out their ass then I'm going to call them on it.
"Declarative statements presuming that we have to use the criteria I prefer you to use." ??? Where does that come from? I stated my opinion as a BB TO who happens to reside in NA - I don't speak for North America so why would you take my posts as declarations of any kind?
As for it's the World Cup so it's gotta move around - this is a fluff based declaration that one only uses as a catch-all when reality and math cannot save it. People from around the world participate in it every 4 years so it's already lived up to it's namesake and fluff imho.
And no - I don't think numbers should be the only factor, but again it's the main factor and again should not be easily panned over for fluff based reasons but for a solid bid. 200+ in my honest opinion is a solid bid - anything less is charity for WC, and no it doesn't have to always be 480 coaches in my mind. When solid bids that are not based on affirmative action and fluff can be presented to bring the WC to North America then I'll agree with you.
Can guys stop talking about how fricking easy it'll be please? It's like you're planning on building an epicentre where all you've done before is houses with popsicle sticks. It's the cocky attitude with nothing to back it up that bothers me, and it'll compel a response out of me every time. Until somebody in North America runs a truly stratospheric event then treat 150-200 coaches with the respect it deserves. |
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zootsuitjeff |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 07:03 PM
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Im not saying it will be easy. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to try. I'm done with this thread. |
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daloonieshaman |
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Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 07:20 PM
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zootsuitjeff wrote: Im not saying it will be easy. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to try. I'm done with this thread.
+1 |
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generaljason |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 02, 2012 - 07:30 PM
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zootsuitjeff wrote: Im not saying it will be easy. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to try. I'm done with this thread.
I never said you said that it would be easy. While I was talking to you the comment wasn't directed at you.
As for trying, go for it, nobody is stopping you least of all me. ![Very Happy](modules/PNphpBB2/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif) |
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