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Jonny_POffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 02, 2012 - 07:58 PM



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Earlier, GJ asked for opinion of TOs who have gotten 50+. That's me.

My heart would love to see the World Cup in North America.

My brain (albeit lacking a lot of cells) tells me it will be VERY difficult to pull off successfully. Not impossible however.

A North American WC2015 bid is not something I'm interested in at all, but I encourage others in NA with the drive to try and put something together.

I get what GJ is saying.... and I share much of those opinions. But I also wouldn't mind if someone proved it wrong either.

My job is to keep kicking ass on the Chaos Cup and hit 75+ this year.

GJ's job is to keep kicking ass on the Spike and hit 75+ this year.

Let the World Cup committee decide whose job it is to kick ass with the World Cup in three years.

And yea... three years. Shaman, are we really talking 2019 right now? Hoverboards man. Hoverboards.
 
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SolarFlareOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 03, 2012 - 07:55 AM



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Here's my 2 cents.

The bidding is a problem. Uncertainty over who will be able to attend is a problem. Calling it a "World Cup" is a problem.

I think this process does nothing but split the community.

If you want to host a tournament, then host it. If you want to call it a World Cup, then whatever. If I am able to attend, I'll be happy to play some games and have a few drinks afterward.

But the bidding and the uncertainty leads to fussing. Which, to me, is not fun.
 
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blammahamOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 03, 2012 - 08:35 AM



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@ Jeff and Dennis,

Your right that numbers aren't the only measure of success but I think they are a part of it, I'm speaking to the overall experience of the event where numbers, games, socializing, and all the other aspects are a success too.

It is critically important to know what you are in this world, and our tournament scene is IMO in it's infancy. Maybe, as you say Dennis, in the time that the WC is to come to NA our situation will have changed and grown to the point where we will know that it will be a success, not just think that it wil be.

I say let's get a couple of NATC's under our belts over here to see if we can get NA coaches to be more willing to travel to events, especially ones on the opposite coast from where they are located. To me that is what we will have to happen before we can have a successful WC on our shores.

Jeff your work with the WC grand prix is a fantastic tool to start, when I was looking at it though I did notice that most people have not been traveling to tournaments and we need to see if coaches will do that at some point.

I'm certainly not trying to rain on anyone's parade rather to issue my personal reservations on having an event of this magnitude and profile before we are ready. S.
 
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Warpstone
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 03, 2012 - 01:55 PM



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Not being a TO, it's interesting to see this from the outside. I don't actually think Craig, Jeff and Dennis are actually that far apart except for timing.

JP actually sums it up nicely for me: the infrastructure for our domestic Blood Bowl scene still needs a fair amount of work.

Really guys, even FIFA doesn't just expect the World Cup to be a success in a vacuum. Before a country gets the World Cup nod, it hosts a few smaller events and eventually the Confederations Cup as a "proof of concept" before taking on the big show.

That should be the key to an eventual World Cup held in North America. The vetting process should also be an infrastructure building process. In this sense, it's a win-win scenario as even if we don't win a WC bid we at least get to have a much stronger domestic environment. North American Championship? Great idea, and certainly a stepping stone to eventually hosting a WC.

All I'm saying is that getting to a World Cup is a process, and that the NA TOs have to plug away at a fair amount things (league engagement, NAF registration, regular tournament attendance) to overcome our significant geographic challenges.

P.S. pledges of attendance are basically meaningless until people start putting nonrefundable money down to pre-reg. I desperately want to go to Quake and Chaos Cup, but until I actually do, my 2 cents about my commitment to travel for anything is worth exactly that to Dennis or JP regarding their tournies.

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daloonieshamanOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 03, 2012 - 03:00 PM



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      Warpstone wrote:

P.S. pledges of attendance are basically meaningless until people start putting nonrefundable money down to pre-reg. I desperately want to go to Quake and Chaos Cup, but until I actually do, my 2 cents about my commitment to travel for anything is worth exactly that to Dennis or JP regarding their tournies.

lol
If half the people came to events that say they are or they will then heck we would have numbers close to 100 at them.
 
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millandsonOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 03, 2012 - 03:44 PM



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Just to point out, those figures for 2011 are missing out a couple of tourneys, including the NAF Championship, which, to my knowledge, had around 200 people attending, and you had to sign up to NAF as part of going (from what I remember).

If Europe can pull off tourneys like that every yea, but the US can't do even one that big... that's sort of a negative against the US being able to pull off something of that size even if it is called the World Cup.

If the US can prove it can pull off events of that size, then they'll be in a strong position to bid for the World Cup. Until then, Europe is the better bet by far for the quality of the event, and the quantity of coaches attending.
 
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generaljasonOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 03, 2012 - 03:54 PM



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      millandson wrote:
Just to point out, those figures for 2011 are missing out a couple of tourneys, including the NAF Championship, which, to my knowledge, had around 200 people attending, and you had to sign up to NAF as part of going (from what I remember).


The NAF Championship is in there for European tournaments I listed for 2011. It actually had 188 coaches last year. Friggen huge. But yeah it must be my accent or something, over here we pronounce it as the Blood Bowl. Wink

As for other missing tournaments to that 2011 list, I noticed that quite a few European tournaments did not have NAF games entered compared to the 2008 list that I did so I didn't count them as I had now idea who attended.
 
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Darkson
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 03, 2012 - 11:49 PM



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(Off-topic, PM is fine!)
      Warpstone wrote:
Really guys, even FIFA doesn't just expect the World Cup to be a success in a vacuum. Before a country gets the World Cup nod, it hosts a few smaller events and eventually the Confederations Cup as a "proof of concept" before taking on the big show.

Just because I'm interested (stupid things like this set me inquiring Embarassed ) what did the US hold before the '94 World Cup? My Google- and Wiki- fu are letting me down.

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Warpstone
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 04, 2012 - 01:56 AM



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      Darkson wrote:
(Off-topic, PM is fine!)
      Warpstone wrote:
Really guys, even FIFA doesn't just expect the World Cup to be a success in a vacuum. Before a country gets the World Cup nod, it hosts a few smaller events and eventually the Confederations Cup as a "proof of concept" before taking on the big show.

Just because I'm interested (stupid things like this set me inquiring Embarassed ) what did the US hold before the '94 World Cup? My Google- and Wiki- fu are letting me down.


PM sent.

BTW, the fact that FIFA abandoned this method for the World Cup in Qatar is exactly why that bid is considered so ridiculous. Rolling Eyes
 
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JoemanjiOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 04, 2012 - 11:21 AM



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It makes no sense to hold it outside of Europe. That is where the vast majority of tournament going coaches are, and it is geographically compact enough that they can all reach wherever it is held. The USA is not on a comparable scale to Europe. A WC in America would not be in America, it would be in Chicago or Las Vegas ... for all intents and purposes still a plane ride away for most Americans. Whereas the French/German/Spanish/English can drive or get a train to anywhere in Europe.

It would also halve the turnout at least, although there would likely still be more Europeans there than non-Europeans.

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Darkson
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 04, 2012 - 11:52 AM



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      Joemanji wrote:
It would also halve the turnout at least, although there would likely still be more Europeans there than non-Europeans.

And where is it written that numbers are the be all and end all?
Hardly a "World" Cup if it's never going to leave Europe.

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DeathwingOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 04, 2012 - 12:35 PM
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I think what is quite a pertinent question is what a WC with 200+ coaches would do for the tournament scene in NA? Would there be any long term benefits to the NA tourney scene by getting more NA coaches together in one place than ever before in terms of creating and strengthening bonds?

Very open to debate, but it's a factor worth consideration and discussion IMO.

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daloonieshamanOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 04, 2012 - 12:47 PM



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Make it simple
Since prominent people feel that big numbers are important, and that currently most of the concentration of the numbers are in Europe lets get rid of false advertising.
As Some do not want it to be a WC change it to the Euro Union Bowl.
Also while they are talking numbers lets make the minimum 800 players because 400ish is not enough. 400 is just as petty a number as 200
phish why even have it at all , it is nothing but an unimportant game.

some of you guys have no clue
 
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DeathwingOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 04, 2012 - 12:47 PM
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      generaljason wrote:

then why don't they go to Europe? East to West is nearly the same price as East to Europe?


How does West to Europe compare?

Just for discussion, do you think this has any relevance?

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-04/travel/americans.travel.domestically_1_western-hemisphere-travel-initiative-passports-tourism-industries?_s=PM:TRAVEL

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daloonieshamanOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 04, 2012 - 12:58 PM



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      Deathwing wrote:
      generaljason wrote:

then why don't they go to Europe? East to West is nearly the same price as East to Europe?


How does West to Europe compare?

Just for discussion, do you think this has any relevance?

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-04/travel/americans.travel.domestically_1_western-hemisphere-travel-initiative-passports-tourism-industries?_s=PM:TRAVEL


Not that I understand your question but
a lot of Americans do not travel for several reasons
They tend to live where they enjoy the surroundings
there is a shitload of stuff to see and do within a short ride
(Los Angeles in a single day you can, Surf, Ski, Dirt Bike, Go to a theme park, catch a professional sports game)
Most Americans feel that travel outside america is special and do it very few times in their life.
Others are quite content with the area they are in and do not need to travel.

BUT>>>>

We will travel to hell and back for our personal interest. (Take traveling across the country for a freaking football game) (various trade/hobby shows) (you know what % of Californians were at Comic con Last Year? 42.7% and by all means most of those were from more that 100 miles away.
 
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