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dode74 |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: New Team "Deamons of Khorne
 Posted: Sep 26, 2012 - 02:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 03, 2012
Posts: 102
Status: Offline
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@ nod hero
Good call - corrected it and removed link to the wrong one.
@ Darkson
First, your argument is a slippery slope fallacy - if we're going to let people off a few parking tickets then we might as well let them get away with murder, right?
Second, what would you have done? Given that you are told "the next team will be Khorne, please design it" would you:
1. Produce a balanced roster which is fun to play and at the very least has a nod to Khorne in its design.
2. Produce a faithfully fluffy roster which is going to be a tier 1 team at the very least.
3. Tell them to bugger off, leaving them two options:
a. Have someone less experienced at team design than you do it. or
b. Have Cyanide design it and come up with something along these lines:
Code: 0-16 Pit Fighter Cultists 6 3 3 6 A/GSP Mighty Blow, Sure Hands 60k
0-1 Herald 7 6 2 9 GS/AP Animosity, Horns, Claws, 160k
Strip Ball, Dist Pres,
Sure Feet, Sprint
0-6 Bloodletter 6 3 2 7 GSP/A Block, Tackle, Horns 70k
0-1 Bloodthirster 4 7 1 8 S/GAP Animosity, Block, Horns, 140k
Foul App, Regen, Dist P,
Mighty Blow, Thick Skull |
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Manuel |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 26, 2012 - 05:55 AM
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Joined: Dec 23, 2011
Spain
Posts: 110
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
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| What's supposed to be these cyanide-roster? The starting point when developing the final roster? |
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dode74 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 26, 2012 - 06:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 03, 2012
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| It's an example of what Cyanide could have come up with unless Galak was involved. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 26, 2012 - 07:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Posts: 2696
Location: Undisclosed
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@dode - #1, but other than the names, that's not what this roster is.
I'm not saying it would be easy, but there must having been better options than this, which is a roster (which I'd struggle to call Chaotic at all) with a "Khorne" sticker put on it. |
_________________
_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
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dode74 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 26, 2012 - 07:15 AM
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Try playing them and tell me it's not "chaotic" 
And I disagree with you about many of the the fluff aspects. Sure, Bloodletters are S5 and T3 in WFB and some think that ST3 with AV7/regen is a bit low. Well, elves are T3 in WFB, and they are AV7 without regen in BB. And when all is said and done, when it comes to straight stats then so what? The player is not all about stats: skills make a massive difference to the basics in BB, more so that in WFB I would argue.
Out of the box the 6 lesser daemons are the best blitzers in the game (all get 2d blocks with only 1/36 odds of failure against any ST3 player), and the Bloodthirster is the best Big Guy in the game by quite a way. We're talking about a "race" which charges down the enemy and overcomes them, creating chaos while it does so, but is fairly fragile if they get bogged down toe-to-toe. Well, that's what this team does.
If you think there is a better option then feel free to come up with something new and interesting which isn't simply a replication of another team (a suggestion of mass negatrait daemons, for example, would be very similar to vampires imo). |
Last edited by dode74 on Sep 26, 2012 - 07:28 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 26, 2012 - 07:27 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Posts: 2696
Location: Undisclosed
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I can see it's not Chaotic (no mutation access), just as I can see it's not Khornate.
And WTF is pass access on the pitfighters? Yeah, very fluffy.  |
_________________
_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
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dode74 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 26, 2012 - 07:35 AM
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A bit like Chaos Marauders then?
And they most certainly chaotic on the pitch. |
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Posted: Sep 26, 2012 - 07:44 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Posts: 2696
Location: Undisclosed
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Yeah, so's the freaking Norse team.
Marauders was a mistake to, one that had to be there so the JJ could make his precious Chaos All-Stars. Two wrongs don't make a right. |
_________________
_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
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dode74 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 26, 2012 - 08:28 AM
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These are more so, and a bit backwards to Norse.
Wrong in your opinion, perhaps. Or perhaps the ability to take a leader RR was considered... |
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Grumbledook |
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Posted: Sep 26, 2012 - 08:40 AM
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I don't care about the fluff as I don't care about warhammer
I'm solely interested in the how the team plays and fits in with the others. I think doing it behind closed doors was an error.
I look forward to seeing all the feedback that comes from people using the team. |
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'Boomshanker an Interception'
Jon
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 26, 2012 - 09:57 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
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dode74 wrote: Try playing them and tell me it's not "chaotic"
And I disagree with you about many of the the fluff aspects. Sure, Bloodletters are S5 and T3 in WFB and some think that ST3 with AV7/regen is a bit low. Well, elves are T3 in WFB, and they are AV7 without regen in BB. And when all is said and done, when it comes to straight stats then so what? The player is not all about stats: skills make a massive difference to the basics in BB, more so that in WFB I would argue.
Out of the box the 6 lesser daemons are the best blitzers in the game (all get 2d blocks with only 1/36 odds of failure against any ST3 player), and the Bloodthirster is the best Big Guy in the game by quite a way. We're talking about a "race" which charges down the enemy and overcomes them, creating chaos while it does so, but is fairly fragile if they get bogged down toe-to-toe. Well, that's what this team does.
Tom |
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Cabezacubo |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 30, 2012 - 08:12 AM
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Joined: May 01, 2007
Málaga (Spain)
Posts: 8
Location: Málaga (Spain)
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Here another coach that don´t like the roster either.
I´m glad it is not a broken one, but I still don´t like it at all. Bloodletters and Heralds are too weak, Pitfighters with pass skills and blodletters with Agility skills (oh, sure very "Khorney").
The great demon has wings, why not "Jump up"?
With some tweaks it could have been a more Khorney team without making it too broken or simply a killing machine.
Pitfighters with Dirty player, Bloodeters with Fue4-Agi2... and so one.
I suposse every one of us is a "potential designer" and have his own Khorne team, but for what I´m reading, a lot of us are not very amused with that. |
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dode74 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 30, 2012 - 03:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 03, 2012
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Quote: blodletters with Agility skills
This is a section of fluff from the Daemons of Chaos army book:
"Left to their own devices, Bloodletters sprint and bound from one enemy to the next, hacking the foe apart with their murderous Hellblades before springing away in search of new lifebood to spill." |
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Geggster |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 30, 2012 - 05:32 PM
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NAF Treasurer
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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Posts: 170
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Grumbledook wrote: I think doing it behind closed doors was an error.
It might not be popular but there was clearly no way of sorting this roster out in the wider community given it being needed for a product launch (and no BBRC to agree it either, come to that).
An experienced group seems the best we could have hoped for - and that's what we got.
Dode's thoughts there about the blitz being very reliable, and the frenzy all over the shop causing blocking chaos, all seems pretty sensible and thematic.
I look forward to giving them a go sometime (or play against them). Viva la difference.
NAF approval is a different kettle of fish. I see on one thread, a couple of Spanish guys have already approved them for their tourney - and elsewhere people are saying they will never allow them (which seems a little hasty to me, but there you go).
Interesting times. |
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NAF Treasurer
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Sebco |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 01, 2012 - 01:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 03, 2004
France
Posts: 466
Location: France
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Geggster wrote:
Interesting times.
Interesting but complicated!
We also have in France some organizers who yet asked us if they could write their tournament ruleset saying LRB 6 + 3 added rosters (= chaos pact + slanns + underworld) + khorne daemons roster.
I don't know if NAF will soon validate Khorne roster. But I hope we will authorize NAF tournaments to accept Khorne roster if they want to. If Khorne Daemons roster isn't validated by NAF, games played with this roster won't count towards NAF rankings but, at least, we won't forbid coaches testing this new roster. If it would have been broken, it would have been different. But now I can't see how it could really unbalance our tournaments. |
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NAF Membership Director + France NC
Bowl des Neiges XIX : 2022 february 26th & 27th
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