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PipeyOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 03, 2013 - 02:39 PM



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Regarding the rules - the best way would be for the organisers to have a discussion with the TD (more than likely next tenure from May 2014) to decide what form they'll take.
 
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kfogedOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 04, 2013 - 12:00 AM



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      DukeJan wrote:
Why not: All teams TV 130: no stats increases, minimum 100/110 TV spent on basic roster (Players/RR/FF/Staff). Every sixth skill may be a double. This should level the playing field for most races


Say hallo to Zon's with 13 players and 10-12 skills Smile
 
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JoemanjiOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 04, 2013 - 01:39 AM



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Or all-Guard Dwarfs.

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PurplegooOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 04, 2013 - 02:25 AM



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If I could ask for one thing for Blood Bowl Christmas, it would be for people to stop trying to ‘improve’ the rulesets of flagship events.

This is the World Cup we’re talking about, the World Cup. From the bottom table to the top, there are compelling reasons why a straight forward, vanilla ruleset is best. Of course, we are all marking Italy 2015 in our calendars because we want a big party celebrating our game and we want to meet and share a beer with our friends from far away we seldom see, but we’re also there to play 9 games of BB, so the rules are important.

Joe’s right, these flagship events (World Cups, Majors) attract several casual players that don’t play a lot of BB the rest of the year. Whilst we should not insult their intelligence and imply tiered rules are too complicated for them, simple, well understood rules mean these coaches are on as level a playing field as possible with more active coaches before a die is rolled. The NAF has a duty of care to maintain a certain level of quality in these events (on and off the board), and these casual players should be welcomed with the warming embrace of familiarity, not greeted with something they don’t recognise. Let me tell you, even great coaches can miscalculate when the rulesets get too wacky. I remember at the last Ironmanj (where things got a bit mad), half of the field wanted to have their roster back again at the end of day one. That’s not good over three days.

In the middle: this is a clash of Blood Bowling cultures. At the Eurobowl every year (and those rules are, rightly, quite vanilla) we see that every nation has a slightly different take on the rules. Eyebrows are routinely raised every year at opposing skill and race choices. Denmark turned up (quite seriously) with Vampires. If you make the WC a vast paper exercise before you turn up, everyone is going to be slightly better or worse off than the next guy. Jon, we have at the very least one tournament a month in the UK where tiers /balance are big bits of the rules, and in every tournament something is still ‘best’. We see a high percentage of (for instance) Humans one week, or Slann the next, or whatever. And that is just another tournament, you’d better believe at a World Cup people would give it more thought. You’d probably just replace your Undead dominance with something else. You've just seen in the previous posts how even simple, apparently variety encouraging, rules can be reduced to least resistance in seconds.

At the top: Well, how often do you get to play against the best in the world? On the rare occasions I get to sit down eye to eye with Fischerking, with Titouch, with Flix (to name but three, other excellent quality nerds are available), I want the big boys with the big toys. If the World Cup comes down to two great teams facing off in game nine, the romance and gravitas of the situation surely screams that highly ranked (if you like that kind of thing), high quality coaches and teams square off for the marbles. There would be something quite underwhelming about Tripleskulls’ Nurgle vs. Yena’s Goblins on table one, brought together in the name of variety, wouldn’t there?

In short, the bigger the tournament, the more tight, vanilla control should be put on the ruleset. Jon, you have a huge variety of tournaments on your doorstep with hugely varied rules. It is impossible (I think) for you to get jaded with all of that. When you’ve got people paying hundreds of pounds travelling from the four corners of the Blood Bowling planet, that is the time for simplicity.

In my humble opinion, of course.
 
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DukeJanOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 04, 2013 - 03:22 AM



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      kfoged wrote:
      DukeJan wrote:
Why not: All teams TV 130: no stats increases, minimum 100/110 TV spent on basic roster (Players/RR/FF/Staff). Every sixth skill may be a double. This should level the playing field for most races


Say hallo to Zon's with 13 players and 10-12 skills Smile
You're right KÃ¥re, resurrection is probably not a good idea is such a ruleset. Players can die, miss matches or lose stats, journeymen take you back to 11.

[edit]I will stop digressing from the WC topic now, the rules are fine and fun as they were last time.[/edit]

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Last edited by DukeJan on Dec 04, 2013 - 03:27 AM; edited 1 time in total
 
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IndigoOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 04, 2013 - 03:26 AM
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Resurrection is, without doubt, better for this tournament.

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GrumbledookOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 04, 2013 - 07:28 AM



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This is why I suggested getting a poll across the board, not just from a few voices.

We are fundamentally going to disagree on this matter and my wish for Christmas would be the opposite. ;]
The fact this is a wish and perhaps an issue for you suggests there is somewhat of a demand to do this, would be nice to see how big that demand is compared to those who want to keep things pretty much how GW decided back in 2002!

Whatever the rules you are going to get the big boys with the big toys facing off, that isn't going to change. Not that I see anything underwhelming about Nurgle vs Goblins on the top table.

Vanilla would be just pure raw TV100 teams with no skills. I just don't buy that having 3 skills per day is any more complex than having a higher TV and letting teams stack some skills. In fact putting no restrictions on stacking skills is even simpler than having a rule stipulating only one skill per player. I can buy that you don't want the change for other reasons, keeping things easy for coaches doesn't fly with me! I bet far more casual players attend the local tournaments you mentioned which have diverging rulesets without problems.

I certainly agree resurrection is the way to go though, extra bookkeeping between games on this scale is a recipe for disaster.

So yeah, the only way you will see me shutting up about this before the world cup is if the NAF actually canvassed the membership. I kept relatively quiet regarding the Eurobowl rules this year, changing things up once every 4 years, when the NAFC also seems reluctant to change seems like a more than reasonable request. So that's 1 Flagship tournament in 8, or 1 in 12 if we also include the Dungeonbowl to put it into a bit of perspective.

(Though I would keep doing so for the NAFC and then the world cup after if things stayed the same Wink )

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GaixoOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 04, 2013 - 07:35 AM
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      Purplegoo wrote:

Joe’s right, these flagship events (World Cups, Majors) attract several casual players that don’t play a lot of BB the rest of the year. Whilst we should not insult their intelligence and imply tiered rules are too complicated for them, simple, well understood rules mean these coaches are on as level a playing field as possible with more active coaches before a die is rolled.

The elegance of Patxo's proposal is that it allows a dilettante to join a team and take up fewer of the team's "resources," while also selecting a race that won't be weighed down with high expectations. The supposedly difficult/meta job (to be fair, you may have been talking about more involved comp schemes when discussing "complicated" rules) of getting a team's racial selections in order would invariably fall to the team captain, who would surely be able to handle it.

If you really want to accommodate casual players, then a team tournament probably isn't the way to go in the first place, right?
 
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JoemanjiOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 04, 2013 - 08:05 AM



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      Grumbledook wrote:
So yeah, the only way you will see me shutting up about this before the world cup is if the NAF actually canvassed the membership.
Jon mate, if we did that you'll just start up about something else. Wink

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GrumbledookOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 04, 2013 - 10:04 AM



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One improvement at a time Joe ;]

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GlowwormOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 05, 2013 - 06:46 AM



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Sorry i asked about the rules now..... Embarassed

However, if we are canvassing the great NAF public about it could we include the option for each team to have a stunty ( 3 "classics" only) player?

that way we get a "Stunty World cup as well!!

There would be something quite underwhelming about Tripleskulls’ Nurgle vs. Yena’s Goblins on table one,

Actually that would be awesome!! just getting to single figure tables with stunties is something that provokes interest... Wink
 
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JoemanjiOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 05, 2013 - 06:55 AM



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One person on an internet forum asking for something to happen does not mean it will happen. Wink

In the very first post of this Q&A thread our President Lycos said :
      Lycos wrote:
Q; How much control over the rule set will the hosts have?
A; Effectively, none. The rules will be the same as previous WC's with the 9 games, 3 x 3 days. The hosts will be exactly that but they will "run the event", the NAF will work with you and provide help and guidance but the hosts will provide refs and admin teams.
More to follow as we go.

Is this not cut and dried? All five bids to host the event did so with full knowledge of this stipulation. I was lucky enough to be involved in the voting process and none of the bids made any mention of wanting to challenge it.

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sann0638Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 05, 2013 - 07:14 AM
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Someone should have quoted that earlier!

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JoemanjiOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 05, 2013 - 07:26 AM



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Quite. Wink

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Notorious_jtbOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: Dec 05, 2013 - 07:26 AM



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      sann0638 wrote:
Someone should have quoted that earlier!


Laughing
 
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