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kikurasis |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Regeneration
 Posted: Oct 25, 2013 - 10:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 05, 2011
Canada
Posts: 42
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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| Technically, if it doesn't say "immediately after" or "before something", I guess you could roll it anytime up until the end of the match. Everyone generally plays that we do it immediately because it is on our minds and the player has a chance to get a player back for the next drive. I can see a situation when a regeneration team is getting beat up so bad that they don't want the player back that game, so hold off until the end of the game to roll it. Quite interesting (and only valid in non-resurrection environments). |
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quietdominator |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Regeneration
Posted: Oct 25, 2013 - 01:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 08, 2011
United States of America
Posts: 66
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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| Thank you for your comments. I appreciate your efforts. |
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Gaixo |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Regeneration
Posted: Oct 25, 2013 - 05:32 PM
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Former President
Joined: May 08, 2009
United States of America
Posts: 811
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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From the other forum.
Gaixo wrote: To add some context, the person posing the question is upset because I only recalled that Wilhelm Chaney had regen after a drive had ended at halftime. He "allowed" (his choice of words, and I honestly thought he was joking) me to make the roll at that time. When the game was over he decided that this had a major impact on the game, despite the fact that Wilhelm was sat on the line and cas'ed again in Turn 10.
I'm more than willing to hear differing opinions, but don't currently believe that I've cheated him.
The contention of quietdominator's commissioner (that's me!) and league mates is not that the responses on the timing of Regeneration are incorrect, but that the timing of Regeneration is largely inconsequential (unless apothecaries or possibly Igors are involved). In this specific case, there is also the fact that quietdominator explicitly allowed the late roll.
One league member also contends that Regeneration is not an optional skill and that there is no discretion in rolling it, and that therefore both parties have made a mistake if it isn't rolled immediately. I don't agree with that, really, but figured someone might want to comment on it.
Any "hostility" toward quietdominator is largely unrelated to this specific issue. |
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Verrinho |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Regeneration
Posted: Oct 25, 2013 - 06:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 03, 2010
Italy
Posts: 49
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
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quietdominator wrote: verrinho wrote: In the rules it is stated that you have to roll for regeneration "after the roll on the casualty table and after any apothecary roll, if allowed." so there's no point of discussion on that 
on top of that it is written that "on a 4-6 the player will heal the injury after a short period of time to re-organise himself, and IS PLACED ON THE RESERVES BOX INSTEAD."
Verrinho that is the point of discussion. How long after can you wait to roll. I agree it implies immediately but it does not say that. So you can wait for as long as you want just as long as it is done after. At least that is what I am being told in the league. Now do you under stand my confusion.
I did unterstand your confusion, but you shouldn't have had it reading the rules correctly.
as one more point to what I'm writing, just read point 2 of page 23. "skills may be used an unlimited number of times PER ACTION." so you use skills when you're on the field. since you use your skills when you're on the field, before going to the CAS box you CAN roll a die to see if you go to that box, or to the reserves box.
PS: look at page 11, it says that "if the roll succeds (roll for armour), then the opposing coach is allowed to roll on the injury table ..."
you roll immediatly or not? it is not written that you roll immediatly, so I can tell you tha you should roll it, let me think, in 2-3 working days might be ok? |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Regeneration
Posted: Oct 25, 2013 - 09:17 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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To answer the question directly: the roll is meant to be rolled immedately after the CAS roll (unless an Apothecary is used and then it would be immediately after the Apothecary). This was discussed and the wording changed so that it was supposed to be clear that it was part of the series of rolls happening right then. Not waiting for some future unnamed period. This is greatly reinforced by the fact that it say the player is PLACED into the Reserves box instead (ie they never go to the Casualty box ... which could only happen if the roll was immediate ... if you were allowed to wait ... then the skill would say the player is MOVED into the Reserve box from the Casualty box when the skill is used later. So there the text of the skill full reinforces the intent which was immediate.
Now all this said ... if you honestly forgot to roll for regeneration in a league ... I personally would let you roll for it if it was an honest mistake. I guess if you have some type of hard core official league they could say you could not ... then their word is absolutely final. Commissioners always have the final say. However if you delibrately were not rolling your regeneration roll immediately for some wierd reason ... then yeah ... I'd probably tell you too late and have the game carry on.
Tom |
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quietdominator |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Regeneration
Posted: Oct 26, 2013 - 01:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 08, 2011
United States of America
Posts: 66
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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| In our match when he forgot to roll the Regeneration and he asked if he could roll it late I said yes. Because he has been playing longer than I and if he thinks it is alright to roll it late then fine what can I say. I was not happy but hey he is the commissioner he knows best. I made a joke on the forum about it and it was taken the wrong way. I remembered being told on this forum that it did make a difference but it was a year ago. So I came on here to get clarification after he told me to come on here and ask the question. I have never said I was cheated. I do not consider someone misinterpreting the rule as cheating. I just came on this chat to find out the official rule if there is one. So I will have it next time if it ever happen again. That was all I ever intended to do. Thank you for your help. |
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Gaixo |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Regeneration
Posted: Oct 26, 2013 - 05:26 AM
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Former President
Joined: May 08, 2009
United States of America
Posts: 811
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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| Again, no one has disagreed with quietdominator about when the roll is supposed to be made. |
_________________
National Tournament Organizer, USA
(NAF Tournament Director, 2014-2018; NAF President, 2018-2024)
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Deadshane |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Regeneration
Posted: Oct 26, 2013 - 09:57 AM
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Joined: Oct 26, 2013
23502
Posts: 4
Location: 23502
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The fact that the league in question is generally a FRIENDLY one with easy going games makes this whole line of discussion distasteful. Now its been brought here to the general bloodbowl public. We thought it was handled on our local forums, the OP now brings it here b/c he is dissatisfied still.
It would be interesting to see what the official ruling would be assuming both players forgot about a regeneration roll. A regeneration roll without the possible benefit of an apoth or Igor as this one was. As the event in question was during a league game where games are generally extremely friendly and there are no useful prizes at the end of a season, I'm left wondering why this is such an issue with the OP. (this discussion has been going on in some form somewhere for weeks now)
But then I can answer my own question.
The OP is the only player in the league who's games need to be offficiated by the league commissioner in order to keep them civil. Several players have requested this. He also generally has to come up with some reason or "loophole" as to why he lost a game. I myself walked away from a game from the OP because of being accused of cheating in game...all of this in what is supposed to be a FRIENDLY league game. Games of bloodbowl, while awsome fun, are simply not worth having ones integrity questioned during in such a manner.
I will be interested to see what an "official" ruling would be on this issue of a forgotten regen roll without the benefit of Igor or apoth. Although, in a FRIENDLY league game where both players agreed to allow the role it is largely irrelevant, although possibly not in the mind of the OP...who refuses to drop this issue which we thought, as a league, was closed.
The OP would do well to remember that first and formost, Bloodbowl is a GAME, and a social activity to be shared with friends. In a FRIENDLY social setting, one tries to behave in an acceptable manner. Any "hostility" that the league has leveled at the OP is a direct result of his own behavior in league games and online.
I apologise for ranting and going off topic a bit, but I feel our leagues dirty laundry has been aired here needlessly and I myself have found myself angered by the amount of discussion that this simple issue has been allowed when a FRIENDLY answer was the simplest and most appropriate one.
Game on boys! |
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Deadshane |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Regeneration
Posted: Oct 26, 2013 - 11:08 AM
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Joined: Oct 26, 2013
23502
Posts: 4
Location: 23502
Status: Offline
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The fact that the league in question is generally a FRIENDLY one with easy going games makes this whole line of discussion distasteful. Now its been brought here to the general bloodbowl public. We thought it was handled on our local forums, the OP now brings it here b/c he is dissatisfied still.
It would be interesting to see what the official ruling would be assuming both players forgot about a regeneration roll. A regeneration roll without the possible benefit of an apoth or Igor as this one was. As the event in question was during a league game where games are generally extremely friendly and there are no useful prizes at the end of a season, I'm left wondering why this is such an issue with the OP. (this discussion has been going on in some form somewhere for weeks now)
But then I can answer my own question.
The OP is the only player in the league who's games need to be offficiated by the league commissioner in order to keep them civil. Several players have requested this. He also generally has to come up with some reason or "loophole" as to why he lost a game. I myself walked away from a game from the OP because of being accused of cheating in game...all of this in what is supposed to be a FRIENDLY league game. Games of bloodbowl, while awsome fun, are simply not worth having ones integrity questioned during in such a manner.
I will be interested to see what an "official" ruling would be on this issue of a forgotten regen roll without the benefit of Igor or apoth. Although, in a FRIENDLY league game where both players agreed to allow the role it is largely irrelevant, although possibly not in the mind of the OP...who refuses to drop this issue which we thought, as a league, was closed.
The OP would do well to remember that first and formost, Bloodbowl is a GAME, and a social activity to be shared with friends. In a FRIENDLY social setting, one tries to behave in an acceptable manner. Any "hostility" that the league has leveled at the OP is a direct result of his own behavior in league games and online.
I apologise for ranting and going off topic a bit, but I feel our leagues dirty laundry has been aired here needlessly and I myself have found myself angered by the amount of discussion that this simple issue has been allowed when a FRIENDLY answer was the simplest and most appropriate one.
Game on boys! |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Regeneration
Posted: Oct 26, 2013 - 02:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2696
Location: Undisclosed
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| From this, and other threads the OP has started (or Necro'd), he has come across as a bit of a rules lawyer, and a bad one at that. |
_________________
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#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
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quietdominator |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Regeneration
Posted: Oct 26, 2013 - 03:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 08, 2011
United States of America
Posts: 66
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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I am not going to add to the character assassination that is going on. The only thing I am interested in is the answer to the question on the rules.
A further question was asked as to Regeneration being an involuntary skill page 14 says, Quote "Unless stated otherwise in the skill description you never have to use a skill just because the player’s got it," The Regeneration skill description does not say it is involuntary. |
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Deadshane |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Regeneration
Posted: Oct 26, 2013 - 04:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 26, 2013
23502
Posts: 4
Location: 23502
Status: Offline
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quietdominator wrote: The only thing I am interested in is the answer to the question on the rules.
That's a big part of your ruleslawyering problem here. You are so concerned with the exact wording of the rules (however irrelevant they might be in this case), that you are oblivious to how sad this little extended tantrum of yours makes you look....and it reflects on OUR league unfortunately.
The thing I find EXTREMELY amusing is that even if you were vindicated, and it was shown that under no circumstances upon pain of death that no-one should EVER back up and roll a regen check is how you would behave after learning this info.
....for example, even knowing this, you might play my khemri, injure a TG....YOU WOULD ABSOLUTELY want to back up if you forgot the second decay induced injury roll.
...makes me laugh....or it would if it wasn't so sad. |
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Deadshane |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Regeneration
Posted: Oct 26, 2013 - 05:39 PM
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Joined: Oct 26, 2013
23502
Posts: 4
Location: 23502
Status: Offline
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quietdominator wrote: The only thing I am interested in is the answer to the question on the rules.
That's a big part of your ruleslawyering problem here. You are so concerned with the exact wording of the rules (however irrelevant they might be in this case), that you are oblivious to how sad this little extended tantrum of yours makes you look....and it reflects on OUR league unfortunately.
The thing I find EXTREMELY amusing is that even if you were vindicated, and it was shown that under no circumstances upon pain of death that no-one should EVER back up and roll a regen check is how you would behave after learning this info.
....for example, even knowing this, you might play my khemri, injure a TG....YOU WOULD ABSOLUTELY want to back up if you forgot the second decay induced injury roll.
...makes me laugh....or it would if it wasn't so sad. |
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quietdominator |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Regeneration
Posted: Oct 26, 2013 - 06:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 08, 2011
United States of America
Posts: 66
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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I am on here to learn the rules. Please refrain from inventing character assassinations.
Thank you. |
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kikurasis |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Regeneration
Posted: Oct 26, 2013 - 11:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 05, 2011
Canada
Posts: 42
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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From page 24 in the rulebook:
"In a league, the Commissioner’s word is LAW. He is allowed to change or modify any of the Blood Bowl rules as he sees fit, including any of the League Rules that follow. In the immortal words of fellow game designer Tuomas Pirinen: If the League Commissioner says that Dwarfs can now fly, your reply must be 'Yes Sir! How high?' If you don’t like the way a commissioner runs his league, you have two choices; put up with it, or leave the league. Arguing with the commissioner is NOT an option. ‘Nuff said, I hope."
That should be enough to put this to rest. |
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