| Author |
Message |
|
|
Post subject:
 Posted: Nov 30, 2004 - 09:27 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
|
|
| I don't think it's harsh enough, but then again i don't think the official rule is harsh enough either. |
_________________
They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
Last edited by Zombie on Dec 01, 2004 - 04:58 PM; edited 1 time in total
|
| |
|
|
|
 |
Mordredd |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Dec 01, 2004 - 07:30 AM
|
|
Joined: Mar 03, 2003
England
Posts: 728
Location: England
Status: Offline
|
|
Spazz, I like the idea of the Vampires using the Thralls to regenerate. I'll have to give that some thought.
Zombie, what would you suggest as an alternative then? |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Spazzfist |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Dec 01, 2004 - 08:20 AM
|
|
Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3953
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
|
|
| Maybe in order to have a chance to regenerate (4+) the vampire will have to commit one thrall to being badly hurt (or even an injury roll). |
_________________
#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Mordredd |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Dec 01, 2004 - 09:48 AM
|
|
Joined: Mar 03, 2003
England
Posts: 728
Location: England
Status: Offline
|
|
I was thinking that you could simply make a Sigurds roll (or D68 SI roll in the Vault) for a healthy Thrall in return for the Vampire regenerating. So the Thrall would have to be not KO+ in order to be used as an apothecary. It would be rolled after the drive has ended like regenerate and you would have to choose whether or not to regenerate the Vampire at the first opportunity. If you choose not to then he suffers the injury as though he failed his regenerate roll.
I think that would be harsh enough as it would lose you a Thrall for the next game on 1/6 regenerates and lose you one permanently on another 1/6 regenerates. That could be quite expensive, even if you freeboot a sacrificial Thrall at 20k per match. It would also limit you to a number of regenerates equal to the number of Thralls on the team. Meaning you could still take down a Vampire team by taking down the Thralls. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Dec 01, 2004 - 02:20 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2696
Location: Undisclosed
|
|
| Just out of interest though, why does it have to be a healthy thrall? Why wouldn't they just suck on a thrall already BH/SI'd? |
_________________
_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Grumbledook |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Dec 01, 2004 - 02:40 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Posts: 922
Status: Offline
|
|
| regenerate is rolled right away iirc |
_________________
'Boomshanker an Interception'
Jon
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Spazzfist |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Dec 01, 2004 - 03:11 PM
|
|
Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3953
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
|
|
Darkson wrote: Just out of interest though, why does it have to be a healthy thrall? Why wouldn't they just suck on a thrall already BH/SI'd?
Balance wise - To make the regeneration more of a tough choice
Fluff wise- maybe they've lost too much blood! |
_________________
#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
KarlLagerbottom |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Dec 01, 2004 - 03:28 PM
|
|
Joined: May 25, 2004
Undisclosed
Posts: 1148
Location: Undisclosed
Status: Offline
|
|
@Grumbledook - I think that the Regenerate roll takes place before the next kick-off. I know that Fumbbl does it automatically, but there is a subtle difference in the strict interpretation of the rules. (Example- If a player with regenerate is turned into a toad, and is killed. The toad does not have regenerate and the player would be dead...however, since the toaded player turns back into the normal player at the end of the drive...then he/she has regenerate ability back before the Kick Off and gets a chance at the roll. This is very important for Nurgle teams since they have no Apoth access and could very easily have their team ruined by a freebooted wizard in leagues.)
@Spazz- I think that any Thrall is hard enough...as long as they are not dead they are still a blood supply.  After all you are proposing only a 1 in 6 chance of success if I am reading the proposed rule correctly. Balance-wise this is going too far IMHO if you limit it to healthy Thralls...if you fail the roll and injure the healthy Thrall things will get out of hand awfully fast.
-Rob
Then again...what do I know...
|
_________________
Karl Lagerbottom - Dwarf Blocker of Renown
NAF Member #5236
---
 
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Dec 01, 2004 - 05:01 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
|
|
Mordredd wrote: Zombie, what would you suggest as an alternative then?
I don't know, to tell you the truth. I think vampires will probably never be balanced. You have to give them at least MA6, at least ST4, at least AG4 and at least AV8. Then you're f*cked.
I would drop the vampire team altogether from the official team list. At the very least, give them one more year of playtest. We all know that the team we have now won't be the official team one year from now anyway. |
_________________
They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Spazzfist |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Dec 01, 2004 - 06:18 PM
|
|
Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3953
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
|
|
@Lagerbottom - What I was proposing was that by biting a thrall it would provide the vampire their normal chance to regenerate (i.e. a 4+ roll on a d6).
@Darkson - I suppose you could move the thralls one column - a healthy one will be k.o'd, a k.o'd one will be badly hurt and a badly hurt one might just make a casualty roll (1-3 BH, 4-5 SI, 6 Dead). |
_________________
#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Graf_Arnhelm |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Dec 02, 2004 - 01:03 AM
|
|
Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 215
Status: Offline
|
|
The idea of sacrificing Thralls to regenerate the Vamp seems fun enough and harsh enough to make the team hard to play.
But the problem is that it adds a rule to an already existing rule: Regenerate.
You'd have a "general" Regenerate, and the "Vampire" Regenerate. Where do we go from here? Should Blockers have an own Block action, differing slighlty from the regular Block? Should Dodgers who start with this skill hav another rule than those who learn it later in the game?
You could always find a reason, fluff- or rules-wise, to nerf with existing general rules to "balance" a team, but I think you'll agree that's not the best way.
Changing the way Regenerate works for Vamps would set a precedence, which is not really a good thing. |
_________________
All well considered, Camelot's a silly place
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Spazzfist |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Dec 02, 2004 - 06:12 AM
|
|
Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3953
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
|
|
I can see where you are going with that, but you have to consider also that the vampire team is the only one that eats their players on a regular basis (trolls sometimes may eat their team mate when about to throw them).
Without some kind of special handicap, the vampire team is too good. Currently the vampire's handicap is the OFAB rules. What I am suggesting is an alternative which fits the same idea (fluff and otherwise) and makes the team a little more playable (IMHO) without making them too powerful.
Teams have been changed slightly to modify one that is too powerful, so the precedence has already been set. In this case the team is replacing one existing unique rule with another. But if change comes in the name of balance then as far as I'm concerned, it's a good thing!
Spazz |
_________________
#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
GalakStarscraper |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Dec 02, 2004 - 06:38 AM
|
|
Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
|
|
Zombie wrote: We all know that the team we have now won't be the official team one year from now anyway. Zombie ... care to place a wager on this one???
At most you might see a clarification to "voluntary movement" for Hypnotic Gaze and "his Move Action" in HGaze as well ... maybe adding pass to the list of things you cannot do while HGazed.
So ignore these 3 changes to HGaze ... care to wager on this one. The Vampire team received a lot of playtesting. I'm pretty confident that this is one bet I'll win with no difficulty whatsoever.
Galak |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Mordredd |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Dec 02, 2004 - 06:59 AM
|
|
Joined: Mar 03, 2003
England
Posts: 728
Location: England
Status: Offline
|
|
@ Graf
I don't think there would be any precedent of that nature set. It wouldn't be having 2 versions of regenerate; it would be a new racial characteristic entirely separate from regenerate.
@ Darkson
Spazz was talking about making it an injury on a Thrall for a 4+ chance to regenerate. However a 4+ roll seems a fairly poor chance of success for the sacrifice of a player so I was thinking it should be a straight swap, i.e. a serious/Sigurds injury roll on a Thrall for an automatic regenerate. So I was thinking it would have to be a healthy Thrall to balance that. Or maybe a 2+ roll to get the Vampire back and allow the use of KO'd players too? I certainly think that the coach should be sacrificing something to get their Vampire back so a Thrall from the dead and injured box is right out.
Fluff wise it would be the team's coach sweeping up the Vampire dust and then using the life blood of a Thrall to resurrect him. Using fresh blood to resurrect a Vampire in this way is such a common Horror theme, especially in Hammer Horror films, that it would be nice to work it in to the team.
@ Grumbledook
Regenerate is now rolled immediately, like the apothecary, but before this year's rules review it was meant to be rolled at the end of the drive. Most people, myself included, rolled immediately before the review as well, just to avoid confusing which players had rolled before (and failed) and which ones had yet to try. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Dec 02, 2004 - 05:31 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
|
|
GalakStarscraper wrote: Zombie wrote: We all know that the team we have now won't be the official team one year from now anyway. Zombie ... care to place a wager on this one???
Sure, if you're into giving away stuff for free! What's up for grabs? |
_________________
They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
